not really
Sarcasm is fun, eh? We need someone to randomly bother DG about vids to break up this monotiny…I bet I spelled that wrong.
Depending on how you play, Judgement can matter from the very first second of play. The idea of it benefitting the underdog by making comebacks possible is only one side of the coin, it is more likely to benefit the player who is already winning and make it even harder for the underdog to come back.
That would be because 3S’s Judgement is almost completely random and there are bugs about it. XI has some semblance of a working logic with it, but for the most part it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
I am aware of this, the point is you can’t use “it’s just different” as a positive point for it, which is what both you and Shiki were doing. Different doesn’t mean anything other than “it’s different”. Talk about the merits of the system itself.
I honestly don’t see it adding to the character dynamic. You don’t need an arbitrary system to motivate you to keep your characters alive. There would actually be MORE motivation to keep a half-dead character alive if Judgement were absent because there would be no potential drawback to having them, it’s all positives. With Judgement, having a 10% life character could cause you to lose.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. Judgement doesn’t dominate XI, but it introduces a stupid element that doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t add to the game. It doesn’t need to be there.
Everyone who says different = better OR different = worse is wrong.
different = different. judge it objectively.
On top of that, there is no one thing that EVERYONE will like (except breaker’s revenge)
Actually without judgement, it could be really difficult to make a comeback in a tag fighter.
All you’d have to do is keep your low life character out and run away/turtle while your high life characters stays out (assuming that he has more life then the other guy’s remaining char), and the other guy can’t do more then the low life damage to the guy on his next hit. It’s a good time waster. One skill I am good at in fighters is knowing how to bleed the clock.
As for the situations of people not knowing they won- that happened to me at the first biweekly. I learned to watch judgement after that. It’s something people will adjust to after the first time it happens, so I don’t think that’s a fair argument to use.
It’s also possible that Joker is bugged- which would be why judgement is lowered. SNKP isn’t exactly known for bug-free games…
LOL…the truth Keits…no one thing everyone will like…hence that can be a problem with the SNK scene…so much of everyone is splintered around everywhere…
Some like 2002, some like NeoWave, some like sam Sho 2, some like Sam Sho IV, some like SSVSp, some like NGBC, some like SVC, some like Last Blade 2, some like Garou, some like Waku Waku 7, some like Breakers Revenge (which being on multitap free will help promote BTW) some like Tenka etc…
Yeah very few out there like ME can swallow just about any SNK game.
So yes as I said I aint trying to make everyone happy.NOT POSSIBLE…so I look at things objectively…objectively for me being NUMBERS LOL.
LIES! ALL LIES!
-SH
What you just said further supports my view that in a game without Judgement, you have MORE reasons to keep your characters alive than you do in a game with Judgement. At no point will that character become a liability to you. With Judgement, that character is like a juicy morsel for me to eat and boost my Judgement with.
The other thing is that total life of all characters is what counts towards your life advantage, so even if the opponent keeps their high-health characters out fighting in place of the low healthers, as long as you hit them more than they hit you, you will eventually put yourself back in the driver’s seat. So in that scenario, Judgement is redundant.
Like I said, it works against normal logic of fighters. I went INTO the game knowing about Judgement, so that didn’t happen to me, but I understood why it happened to people. Even then, sometimes I will forget for a moment to look at the Judgement meter and all of a sudden I have to completely shift my strategy in the space of 10 seconds. That is a MASSIVE advantage because it doesn’t encourage safe play for the aggressor, giving the defender even more opportunities to counter and push Judgement even more in their favor.
Again, I point to the FRX video of an example of where the Judgement DOES shift a hell of a lot even at the end of a match. That still doesn’t explain how Joker can LOWER your own Judgement. There’s a difference between scaled down judgement and NEGATIVE judgement.
I don’t believe it is simply random…random would mean a lack of consistant results and there is at least a good bit of consistency in Judgement (i.e. you always get a certain range of Judgement when you KO a character). I don’t believe that Joker would give a bunch of judgement in one instance and then actually lower judgement in another simply because a RNG says so.
Again, having a Judgement advantage over someone who has a health advantage over you doesn’t mean “you’re winning”. It’s the same as someone in Soul Calibur who has a huge health advantage but has their back to the edge of the stage. It’s a stage where BOTH characters are “winning”, just in entirely different ways.
Irrelevant. If those 6 pokes were all connected into combos Ralf would be dead.
Okay, well…I just tested this in training mode:
(Leader) Gato Vs. Shen:
–Shen does (j.D, st.C, f+B -> QCF+A)x2 FIRST
–Gato does (j.D, st.C -> LDM)–simple combo, requires no stocks
Judgement is left slightly in the red (i.e. Gato’s favor). Shen combo x 2 does more damage and more hits than Gato’s. Yet still doesn’t give a Judgement advantage. Hmm…
What the fuck, Blake? No need for personal insults. I’m not mad at all and I’m just trying to have a debate and you’re getting mad for no reason. Chill.
Anyway, KOF XI isn’t Marvel. There isn’t any running away, especially not if you’re Momoko. She’s small and has a double jump, but how does it help? She has no range, no power, no defense. She has nothing to keep Maxima across the screen except her LDM (which is slow as hell). Momoko running away from Maxima just means she’s about to get rushed the hell down.
You’re right…I have seen it happen more often at tournaments than in other realms of play but still the vast majority of matches end in KO.
I don’t know what to say to people who don’t even know they’ve won if they never noticed the Judgement meter or the fact it says “P1 or P2 Wins” at the end.
Keep this up and well have to go to 'Storm Thread III BEFORE EVO VIDS GUYS…
I do hope I can get the english copy so I have something to play at home with.
Drool @ evo vids. yes please.
Info of '98 UM from IGN.com: http://ps2.ign.com/articles/822/822006p1.html
IGN is fucking pissing me off lately with their retarded ass previews. They get new staff that knows nothing other than dat Madden and dat Halo? Jesus.
Looks like it hits Japan on Dec.31st, no release date here yet.
good info. I dont think they will release the older games that are only singles here in the US. They do it with kof xi and ngbc because they are new but anything else feels like it has to be in a compilation for scea to give it the green light, hence why we dont see 94 re-bout or garou over here.
so…whats IGN talkin about here?
“Before you do any of that you select your mode of play, which basically governs the moves that each character will have access to. There’s basic, extreme, and ultimate.”
I actually talked to Stone, the guy who was playing Oswald, and he said that his Judgement didn’t go backwards, it just sort of didn’t move. So yeah, I think your eyes were playing tricks on you there. The meter still vibrates, it just didn’t move at all.
As far as shifting at the end of the match, you keep citing KOs, and I have already said that KOs affect the meter heavily even at the end of a match. It’s just not as much as it would normally.
It’s funny, because I just tested K’s LDM in a certain situation and got two totally different results.
Instance: P1 K’ does LDM, then P2 K’ does LDM.
1st time: P1 K’ ends up with more Judgement.
2nd time: P2 K’ ends up with more Judgement.
This was at same starting times in rounds as well.
You keep missing how the momentum of the fight changes. Having low life just means you have to play safe, no different than usual, really. Having a Judgement disadvantage means JUST THE OPPOSITE. You have to play really risky in order to get around it. So in a sense, in terms of controlling the pace of the match, it DOES give you an advantage.
It’s not the same as SC because all someone has to do when their back is to the edge is move away from it. Plus, they can still block. They don’t really have to initiate anything in order to avoid the RO option from their opponent.
Ok, let’s say it’s 3 pokes into combos and your one Ralph combo does the same damage, Duck still has Judgement on his side.
I’ve been experimenting with this and honestly, the Judgement meter seems really fickle. For example, normally when I do the same super with one character and then the other, the Judgement will be returned to neutral. However, I got some really fucked up results with some supers, like the K’ situation I noted above.
In any case, I think Gato’s LDM is a bit fucked overall, as it’s the only super I’ve done so far that did more Judgement at end game than at start.
The other thing to remember is that Leaders affect the Judgement more than normal characters. Another K’ example, I did Heat Drive back to back with each character, one Leader and one normal. The Leader had more Judgement.
Nothing personal, but you said something that set off my dumbfuck alarm, thus I told you to stop being a dumbfuck. If you don’t think characters can run in XI, I suggest you take a closer look at Eiji and Malin.
You’re getting styles mixed up again. Runaway is not keepaway. Runaway is simply that, you run. Momoko is faster than Maxima, she can avoid him for 10 counts if she wants to.
Because in any other game, you can look at the life meter and tell who won, only XI is different.
No clue, I think they just assume any fighter with 2D graphics is already an SF2 knock off. I like how SF2 HD is getting high praise and stuff by them but anything else is shitted on, priceless.
Meh, one of the problems of playing niche games. My fighters and beat-em-up’s get no love.
On a different note I pre-ordered KoF XI and NGBC last week on Amazon.com for $29.98 (With free five day shipping) It wouldn’t let me change my shipping preference to get XI earlier, so I have to wait until the end of October or the beginning of November. Good thing I got Gamefly…
i think its just IGN talking out of their ass, i wouldn’t take what they say seriously word for word. maybe one of them hit start by accident while selecting a character or something.
nice pictures though
Dark Geese swallows shit.
Seriously, what’s all this bitching about judgement? Just play the damn game. When it’s down to the wire, the judgement makes the game MORE FUN. Period. A whole new dynamic opens up. I’ve never seen someone hit a super at or near the beginning of the match and then sit and turtle. That’s just straight up stupid, and really only possible and somewhat effective with Kula. Even then it’s not that good and can be broken down with a good roll.
Oswald L sucks because the leader doesn’t really sway judgement unless it kills a character, and you can’t use it near the end of a match because it take roughly 6 seconds to finish. It does not make judgement go backwards, it’s just such an inherently good leader that it seems it was programmed to wiggle the judgement mainly instead of completely moving it.
People are missing the whole management factor with the quickshift/saving shifts too. Just enjoy some new stuff and stop wanting it old. The game plays goofy as hell all over the place anyway. Nobody is even factoring the skill meter management when trying to keep a character alive or baiting something big to force the opponent’s dot use.
Hey, I wonder if US NGBC will have fixed load times? Hmm… :bgrin:
From what I’ve seen, all of the Judgement movement on Oswald’s Leader comes at the very beginning when he initially starts slashing you.
To be honest, I play XI regardless of Judgement. I just don’t like people posting these misconceptions about it. It does seem a bit random at times but there are some pretty simple rules governing it that I’ve found so far:
- Leader characters affect the Judgement meter more.
- Strong normals seem to sway Judgement more easily than anything else. As a result, QS combos severely sway Judgement.
- Contrary to what I thought earlier, Judgement doesn’t seem to be affected by the timer whatsoever. Several different experiments displayed this as such. There are a handful of exceptions such as Gato’s LDM, but that move is busted to begin with, so fuck it.
- KOing characters sways Judgement moreso.
- Consecutive hits affect Judgement more. This doesn’t necessarily mean long combos, it just means being hit repeatedly within a certain period of time (ie combo after combo).
Of course, like almost everything else in XI, there is a random factor to Judgement, but it doesn’t seem to have a massive effect on the system.