Joey was just running circles around me…
Eiji’s great. I’d drop elisabeth for him asap, that chick without LDM is just…why? even with leader, she’s still kinda lame imo. Shen’s…okay.
Eiji’s weakness is working well in teams/quickshift combos, but he doesn’t need that since his moves are so good. Nearly everything he’s got leaves him at either neutral or advantage on block. cr.D > 623C xn is amusing. Counterhit 236A/C is free…anything. I like A version of slash super…if I’m playing XI, which is like never lol.
It’s kinda weird how Triad is all “everybody but A/S is garbage in Coliseum” yet it’s their game? Well…I guess it’s the same with Marvel and others…
Eiji is really good, he is anti-Gato and he can work well on any team simply because he fights independently of the team; he is a one-man wrecking crew. He can even do QS combos, they are just much more limited than most other characters’ options.
Shen is a decent character if he can hit you, he does a shitload of damage and is good for starting ground-based QS combos. Most of his pokes suck though, he has to fight his way into close range.
Geese: Ok dude, whatever you say. Honestly, you’re making claims based off of old info just as much as I am. I’m sure you have improved, so has the rest of NC. Nobody sits still in these games if they really care about him, yet you always seem to think you’re the only one improving and coming up with new stuff. And I’m here to tell you, YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON WHO SAYS THAT TUNG IS A CLASS. You, alone, are the only serious NGBC player I know, besides possibly Joey, who thinks Tung is anything more than B or C class at best. Just because you think it’s true doesn’t make it true. So don’t talk as if everyone who plays NGBC agrees with your assessment. I told you before, players in NC still view Tung as a gimmick. You want discussion as to why? Your basic argument is “omg Muscleman” and “you WILL get hit”. Not even really mentioning what you will get hit by and why. How about some real discussion from you for once?
Don’t forget, I watched you play at FRX earlier this year, where you were claiming that you had improved severely from NEC7. I remember what happened…ALL OF IT. I played against Joey too (he beat me pretty soundly, I think he’s great). It’s good to be confident, but don’t set yourself up like that.
I dunno, I just think making all these tier lists up based upon your victories at tournaments where you don’t even get a chance to play against people who really play Coliseum other than yourself is not logical. You put way too much stock in gimmicky trick shit and trying to know stuff that you hope your opponent doesn’t. Let’s try to get some REAL discussion of the games in this thread for once, instead of your unfounded claims and self-cheerleading.
For a start: What makes Tung better than characters like Robert, Hanzo, Lee, Iori or even Terry and Kyo? Gimme something beyond Muscleman here.
Also guess what Blake…you havent even played me in** NEARLY A YEAR** remember that…So what…guess what Tung is a great gimmick keep that in mind…Last time you played me WAS at NEC…so keep in mind you havent even seen the last time I have played…which is EVO…so you cant go based off NEC7…that’d be like me saying I think such and such is better than you based off NEC7?? Dude you have yet to play me since NEC7 so please dont even open your mouth about something you really dont know about.***.You are very late when it comes to making comparisons as I shall gladly show you next time we meet. :devil:***…And I dont even use the same characters really the same way anymore so you are going based off a LONG TIME AGO…
One year ago plus I now have the Saturn pad…you’ll see next time we meet…will you be ready? Joey you think he can handle it? He doesnt know whats up!!! 
Also saying I been playing people that dont know what they are doing I gues you are discounting JERON TO eh?? Not a good shot to take a low blow on JeRon…I think JeRon is a good solid NGBC player overall.
So be careful what you say…ontop of all this DID YOU EVEN SEE ME AND ALEXS MATCHES IN NGBC MAY 5TH? When I was in North Carolina where were you? You werent even there when I was i the damn state! You wouldve seen a lot of what I am talking about Had you been there the…but you wanna go based off a year ago. LOL. Foolish.
And yes you did say we gotta get that filmed…**thats the truth Blake seriously. God is my witness…you did say that!!! Lu, Alex, Phil were around when you kept marvelling at how different I play Athena!!
**
No offense dude but you seriously did say that.but anyways you dont gotta admit it!/remember it because its neither here nor there!!
Tung has a very good gimmick…all there is to it…you WILL GET HIT…bottom line…
Boy I hate it when people judge based off DAMN NEAR A YEAR AGO???
I assure you next time you play me in NGBC Blake you will see how much you have to learn about playing against me!! :devil:
I am at least 10 times better than the last time you even SAW me (Saturn pad has a LOT to do with it) …Alex will even tell you Im way better than even NEC7 or FRX. JUST FROM MAY 5TH…keep that in mind…so you believe I’m gonna play like that and you are setting yourself up for failure BIG TIME!!! :lol:
Tell em Joey he just dont know!!! He acts like got somehting to prove to him…why dont you let the others that have been playing me *recently *speak? Not one year ago… Hell even May 5th is pretty recent…
LAST DECEMBER?? Haha a year ago.
Joey how bout I judge how yo are gonna play based off FINAL ROUND X in NGBC? Eh? Bd mistake no?? Yeah exactly :lol: Same shit here!
I want discusion as to why such and such isnt a top player. I hold right to argue that such and such is a top player as much as you all feel that he isnt. So then you claim Young Geese aint tops in NeoWave when I been teling you all that a long time ago?
I want discission as to why characters are and are not tops…if you dont debate then it stays as called…but with discussion se things are herd and effect what happens.
Tung deserves to be A Class…gimmick or not guess what…hes A Class…I dont think anyone disagrees with that at all…
Wlel Blake you still hadn’t seen me recently…Joey has…you havent…so you are still pretty late. Joey can justify well as Alex and others that have played me recently that I am quite better than the last time you recall playing/SEEING ME EVEN me. Im much sharper…
Does that mean I am going to beat the Triad? Maybe maybe not…and if you wanna judge based off that then tell me WHO ELSE IS BEATING THE TRIAD in NGBC? Are you?? Nope so you cant really talk. But each time I play them I am getting THAT MUCH CLOSER…**May 5th was a prime example…
**
For all I believe they ARE WORLD CHAMPIONS IN NGBC so I consider it an honor that here am giving Alex fits on May 5th…:wgrin:
I will beat them count on it…And remember I did say that when I do Blake…I aint even talking about Knocking someone into Losers Bracket either, I am talking about straight up Elimination…Joey will too.COUNT ON IT. Like Yipes beating Justin…you cant rule forever…
What does Tung have in comparison to Robert?
Okay Robert has more options ia fireball, combo into super etc…Tung has Dive Kick and Muscleman…which all he needs is Dive Kick and Muscleman, meaning if he does hit you with that its game over… Tung does the amount od damage as many peoples LEVEL 3 SUPERS in one simple move.
He can use it as an Anti Air, or he has way to many ways to get damage in with Muscleman
Like for example-
#1-Off a GCFS,
#2- Off a dive kick Crossover
#3-Off a dive kick Regular
#4- ANTI AIR…
Those are some pretty lethal options for Tung
On top of that lets conisder the follwing I have stated this MANY MANY TIMES and I guess you didnt read it when I did make these discussions…lets see…I have said it before…WAIT WAIT…I have it ARCHIVED…
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3985751&postcount=5037
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3986732&postcount=5042
Yes I have discussed this before so YOU LOSE…no offense but you just didnt read it when I posted it…
Take all this into acount and Tung is more than about DIve Kick plus Muscleman…Yes thats his stuff but man all he has to do is hit you with it…Look at it lke Chun-Li with SA2…I an be patient and I am going to get you with it being patient…I mean shit…other than Karahtrow and SA2 WHAT DOES CHUN LI HAVE IN 3S?? Thats right same shit.she doesnt need uch at all…
Tung has SA2 in the form of Muscleman… I guess Chun Li in 3s is a gimmick too eh?
Now Blake tust me man we’re cool but I am just stating some stuff cool?
:tup:
Ok, but what if I never let you get near me? This is Coliseum, not KOF. And Robert has one of the best keep out projectile games in the whole game; if executed properly, you CANNOT get in on him. What’s preventing me from Flash Kicking your Dive Kick when you come in on me? Explain it, don’t just say “all I need is Dive Kick, you will get hit”. Theoretically, if Geese corners you, you lose. But he sucks cuz he can’t get in on anybody good.
So what if I just don’t jump at you? Again, in this particular matchup, Robert controls the ground game completely with projectiles. I don’t have to jump at you, ever.
This can be baited and thrown. Some characters have pressure that is totally GCFS safe (Iori). With Robert, I basically just mash on cr.A and from there I’m not really scared of GCFS stuff.
Gotta get in on me first.
See above.
SEE ABOVE.
They can be shut down too.
Actually, I did read it. At least, I remember the second link. The first link is a dead link.
And again, what I’m seeing is “MUSCLEMAN MUSCLEMAN MUSCLEMAN DIVEKICK MUSCLEMAN”. It’s all just a big mass about how Muscleman is “broken”. It’s not really an explanation of how Tung hits people with Muscleman, just that if you can hit them with it, it’s great.
Robert is one of the most well-rounded characters in Coliseum, he can do almost anything and play in almost any way. He is extremely adaptable and still very strong. If you can prevent Tung from getting into position to Muscleman you, there is NOTHING ELSE he can do. Robert cannot be shut down in this manner and that alone makes him a better character.
Robert’s got other shit going for him too. A fast overhead that can be comboed off of. An untechable throw that crosses the opponent up. Absolute juggle on his B flipkick means you can use his high-priority air attacks against jumpers and still get free damage; in the corner, you can replace this with his flipkick super for massive damage. His low fireball can be cancelled into his Haoh Sho Ko Ken for a sick counterpoke that leads to 40% damage. He also fights Big very well, which is a huge plus for him. This is all beyond his basic range game which is already strong.
It’s not the same, and if you can’t see why, then I dunno what to tell you. There is a severe difference between a poke that totally dominates the ground and requires no offensive movement from Chun compared to a Dive Kick that requires you to actually attack your opponent first. It’s not the same, Lukus. I’m sorry.
As far as being able to beat Triad: Dude, I’ve come way closer than you have so far. I have an advantage being that I actually live in NC, but I still live an hour away and we really don’t get up to play that often. Probably has to do with conflicting schedules and the fact that I’m a GG player first and a Coliseum player like, fourth. :lol:
But yeah, we’re cool. I’m not attacking you. I just don’t wanna see a lot of statements with little real backup, we need to really discuss these games.
Well look at it like this too Blake…we all agree how powerful Muscleman is…we all agree how MUCH PRIORITY Dive Kick has too…see I like this now we are discussing…thats all I want EVERYONE to do…but right now I guess we are the only ones that know this much about NGBC…
I love fighting Robert actually…I use Tungs air twirl punch to get in on you also…
You can zone me with fireballs and flash kicks…but I will get in…
When I say GCFS I mean look how I play Tung…I play him a combination of Rushdown and SAFE Chun Li style…
Tungs Dive Kick is pretty close to the level on Chuns Cr. MK…it beats DPs…it beats MANY THINGS…HELL IT EVEN crosses UP…which is very dangerous when it does…you dont try and take it on overall…
Flash kick is like overall you can PARRY Chuns Cr. Mk. Also can bait your flash kick keep that in mind…forcing you to block, and if you fuck up blocking you will eat GCFS Muscleman…
So what that I have to attack people with Tung…I can play Turtle Tung…dont let me force you to attack me because then you CANT JUMP, Youll eat MM…and ontop of that I can zone you with C Fireballs…and if it hits…EX UPKICKS…
Lets keep discussing shall we?
About Geese he HAS to get you in the corner to do damage Tung does NOT…he just does his MOST damage in the corner…big difference there…Tung controls all the field…your argument is the same against Mizuchi…its a matter of time before I get in on Mizuchi and when I do…GAME OVER.
Tung commands RESPECT…You gotta play against Tung differently than any other character in the game…Alex even said this to NeoPenny May 5th…
Also dont worry Joey will be in here soon!!!
EDIT- Nvm found the stuff, thanks though Geese.
Lee looks great, but hard, so he’ll probably be the character I steadily work with. There are so many characters I want to play it’s ridiculous, makes it hard on who I actually want to main until I get the game in my hands.
XI I don’t think I could do at a tourney level, maybe it’s just the videos but the game seems fast and execution looks very precise. Plus I don’t like any of the top three, so if I don’t main any of them I believe I’d get creamed. Casuals and Money I could do, I don’t mind losing my meaty paychecks lol.
Anyways thanks for all the help guys, now if only SNK will release the SamSho collection here I’d be a happy boy.
Mizuchi isnt dead if you get in on him… he just tags out to cyber woo! unles woo is dead lol
If people get in on my mizuchi, I either go for a super grab, a wakeup grab, a traded column (will come out during startup) or I go for good ole autoguard sweep. Dope.
Mizuchi is a better Asara and Tung is well… Tung. You could put both of them in A class mabye if don’t let other people get on you. Mizuchi has no real in close options. Tung has no real distance options. These limitations make it hard to argue anything beyond B class for me. Characters with invincible moves will kill both of these characters without fail. AND CYBER WOO… Alex has the best Cyber Woo in the country and he barely plays him in causals anymore. CYBER WOO is near the bottom of the list. Bottom line is that just about every character has some kind of gimmick that makes them pretty good in a way. The only real difference from the top and everyone else is that the top doesn’t need their gimicks to win.
Mizuchi / Broke ass Orochi, is ASSSSSSSS!!! Neo Dio is way better. Hell Shishioh is better.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=4083678&postcount=13
The Updated/current NGBC thread tha hasnt been changed too much.
Neo Dio is better…problem with Dio is his defense AND the fact that like 95% of his shit is GCFSABLE…meaning not good vs. a Tung really…
Lu you telling me that Cyber Wo aint better than Yuki, Nakoruru and CHonshu?? I believe Cyber Woo is better than those for sure I believe hes better than Geese Rock, and hte D Clas as wel. Cl Class may be wher ehe belongs…he does take work makeno mistake about it.
nug doesnt have too mny distancing optons yes true…C fireball is his best option…but it works from a ange…I can keep out Kim and others to a degree even Big if I time it right using it…
But yeah thats like the best Tung has.
But Lu keep in mind also…with Tung its like this…its a baiting game…if any of your moves invincible or not have RECOVERY asnd you fuck up…this is where Tung shines…so Tung changes the game how you play it…Big is obviously his best matchup…but Asura, Mizuchi, Marco?
What about Marco Blake? Marco aint got shit to do against Tung WHEN TUNG GETS IN. You say he wont?
Alex begs to differ…you can run under Marcos grenades with Tung…Marco has no answer FOR tungs dive ick up close either.
Keits- Yeah thats what you did with Mizuchi constantly remember? LOL.
LOL.
Thats funny!!!
You must be fighting some impatient Roberts. Robert never has to approach, ever.
H-O-W. Stop saying “I will get in” and tell me how.
That doesn’t answer how Tung deals with characters who can get around GCFS. You completely ignored the issue.
It beats a lot of stuff, but it CAN be beaten and the point is that you have to put yourself in the line of fire to use it. Chun doesn’t have to do the same thing with cr.MK, so it’s not really an equivalent.
Ok, none of that made sense. First of all, how do you bait my flip kick when I will not do it unless I see you leave the ground? How is that a bait? There is no air guard in this game. And how do I eat GCFS Muscleman if I’m the one blocking? That doesn’t make any sense at all.
Ok, I’m playing Robert and I’m zoning you with my fireballs. Dude, WHY WOULD I APPROACH YOU? I’m completely controlling the match, YOU have to come at ME. Turtle Tung means nothing in that situation. Truth of the matter is, you don’t want to turtle against Robert because you make it easy for me to set up the correct positioning for my Ryu Geki Sen traps.
No, my point is not specifically about the corner, it’s that TUNG ONLY HAS MUSCLEMAN. Muscleman cannot hit you if Tung cannot get close to you, so in that sense it’s the same as Geese because you have ONE THING and if that one thing can’t happen, you lose. Stop focusing on the semantics of what I’m saying and really read what I’m posting.
Just because I have to play differently doesn’t make it a hard matchup. If anything, Robert/Tung is easy for Robert because he can basically play his favorite game, which is keepaway with projectiles.
For an out-of-game example, in Guilty Gear, Baiken has to be fought differently than everyone else because of her counters. You cannot pressure her in the same manner as you would other characters. This seems like a HUGE advantage at first but then you realize that if you just play differently, you can still win and it’s not even a really hard thing to do. Tung is the same. You can’t fight him offensively in the same way as you would others because being too close means you must deal with Muscleman. But if you just play a ranged game or a defensive game, Tung is suddenly nowhere near as scary.
Again, I’m seeing a lot of unbacked statements. Tell me the how-and-why of it. Don’t just state things and think that’s all that has to be said.
For the whole NC view on NGBC tiers: Don’t listen to anything that Alex says online because he says completely different things in person. I remember the first biweekly we had when I played Coliseum against him and he told me that Kim/Big was the only tournament team. :lol:
Er, sorry Alex. I think I missed that post. This thread goes wayyy too fast. 
I’m figuring out good ways to DA with my characters now, something I NEVER DO.
well i guess theres the reason lukus called me while i was at work hahah… anyways, blake… im on your side when you say tung is not A class… hes B AT BEST… but really id rank him as C…
another thing about robert vs tung, or against anyone for that matter, listen to me, turtle tung is B class and thus this is why i say this, you play far away projectile whoring against tung, isnt exactly the best maneuver, you see, tungs EX rush punch goes through them, yes… straight through them,and then once MY TUNG GETS IN (i play way different then lukus) i play turtle. thus yes it may sound nasty, i just sit in your face… you throw out any, i say ANY move thats a fierce i will roll and you will lose half your life. his overhead kick, dont use it, it gets rolled, you jump at him, well you just dont do that against tung you know that, YOU TRY TO GRAB, if i see you you will wiff when i jump and you will eat 31 hits and half your life. trust me bro, there is alot more tung can do in the right hands.
to me, tung is kinda like zappa in GG, he looks terribly broke at first, but once you find out how to fight him… there ya go… its not as scary, like blake said… BUT IT is DEFINETLY a different fight.
keep discussing it…