They’re important but it’s just damage output in HD mode and setups afterward that you need to consider carefully in working with a char. If the barrier to perform them in the match is too much then switch.
HD combos are kinda tacked onto the game and are mostly there for razzle-dazzle BIG COMBOZ and being able to carry people to the corner. I really hate that aspect of the system because it is necessary to utilize most of the time.
Don’t want to make a new thread for this so I thought I’d post it here:
Just really started getting into KoF XIII (I’ve never played a KoF before) and am really enjoying the game so far but I’ve yet to make a main team. I’m still playing with the characters a bit to see who I like.
So far I like Sensou, Kim, Takuma Sakazaki, Mr. Karate, Mai and Goro. Would you guys suggests these characters for somebody just coming over to KoF? Is there a “Ryu” style character who is generally advised to new players to grasp the fundamentals of KoF?
Is there good synergy between these characters? I know I need to consider meter usage when choosing a team order, so any tips on meter usage as it applies to these characters would be good as well.
Thanks!
If you’ve already decided on two characters, I’d imagine you have an idea of where Clark and (either) Iori fit best in your playstyle, and then you could figure out the remaining open position which might help narrowing down your choices. In any case:
K’ wont necessary end up using any HD combos if you put in on point and play well with him, and you could guarantee that your secondary character will come in with a Drive of a few bars. Otherwise the ‘hardest’ HD hitconfirm is starting from a cr.B cr.B st.B chain but you can play without that and only opt for starting with cl.C f.A or by spending a meter in the corner off a Second Shell launch.
He applies pressure pretty simply by having a good hopping air-to-ground j.D combined with his cancelable cr.B which if canceled into an Ein Trigger should net a knockdown or a launch in the corner. So he can set up to hop over sweeps or walk/run back in and pester with cr.Bs, and then mix up the timing on both options and land a cool footsie setup like delaying an Ein Trigger or doing a straight up tick throw. Granted that there’s a lot more to it than those two approaches–st.A can be used to preemptively AA the opponent from hopping out and can be followed with an instant Minute Spikes, K’ can wait and punish a roll or bait a desperation reversal, j.CD also works as a great air-to-ground and air-to-air, and neutral hopping with either creates a wall that the opponent can’t easily deal with without like DPing on reaction–but hopefully that helps you out a bit and there’s plenty of solid K’ footage from CafeID and good K’ play in 2002UM/XIII arcade (should you look to these, focus more on the general spacing and strategies rather than the specifics because obviously the finer points are completely different in XIII console/Climax). If you haven’t already, try using the C Ein Trigger for your pressure since it’s not as stiff on block and it comes out faster, but generally whenever you commit to an Ein Trigger you’re going to be more negative/neutral than from a cr.B so you’ve got to respect the situation sometimes and accept that your options afterward are more rigid/risky.
Takuma’s HD stuff isn’t that difficult except maybe for his most optimal corner carry. Honestly, his Drive Cancel loops have tighter links but really the main thing with all of Takuma’s combos is learning how to quickly charge* [db], f+D *immediately from a f.B. Even with basic stuff, he can do more than 40% from a clean hit/cross up/j.CD counterhit/command grab/anywhere juggle with just 1 meter and 1 drive, and honestly you’re probably better off capitalizing off every single possible instance with him anyway so you shouldn’t be fishing for HD when you’ve already earned a chance to use a Drive Cancel from an anywhere juggle or something, and plus his long-ass combos do hella damage anyway.
I’d agree with him being second or third, but some characters can hop his projectile and the recovery doesn’t allow him to trail behind his light projectile as well as other characters, so don’t expect to run a '98 zoning game with him but instead use it as poke or to force the opponent into the air where you’re ready to meet them with j.CD or anti-air with the C ranbu. His grounded normals are alright, but he can’t hitconfirm or rather create as much damage from an odd his like Mr. Karate can. However, his really low-to-ground hop arc and shockingly simple j.D and j.CD allow him to really be annoying on the offense, especially whenever crossing up with j.D (as usual, Takuma has cross up that’s as good as something you’d expect to see out of ST).
Andy’s floatier hop arc and limited aerial options contribute to one of his few weaknesses, but you can use it to your advantage with cross up j.D. And while you might not have seen a lot of HD from him, I know he has an easy corner carry and then a corner loop, both of which can be ended with NEO MAX for high damage. Even without that, Andy’s able to use Drive Cancels in the corner to do some surprisingly long juggles so the HD plays its biggest role midscreen where he doesn’t get too much damage from his other options. Otherwise all his tools and specials do what you’d expect them to do exceptionally well. As for bad matchups, all I can think of at the moment are characters that can meet him or out-play him in the zoning game or someone who can punish Zaneiken on block. So EX Iori fits the bill as an alright counter since he can EX DP to punish Zaneiken, meet him in a projectile fight, and stay on point with reaction DPs. I don’t think that matchup is as dumb as something like Kim vs Daimon though, where Daimon gets blown up by ff.A and air safe air overhead shenanigans and easy cross ups.
Applying pressure with EX Kyo should be easier than doing it with normal Kyo, for sure, since he has better light normals, less need to cancel into a command normal which can put in him a neutral or risky situation on block, and he’s got his Aragami rekka for safe frametraps, anti-airing, and poking/whiff punishing. Getting in might be an issue since j.D can be crouched under, but you can play it patient or look for a situation to roll or EX R.E.D. Kick your way in, or get into idea rekka poking range and go from there. In the lower and upper spectrums, his damage rivals Fireball Kyo and his HD damage isn’t spectacular (that, and the amount of tools available to him don’t greatly increase with meter) so I usually run him on point, netting 20-30% from lights or a rekka combo/anti-air/poke and in the corner it’s really easy to turn this into a hard knockdown into an easy safejump. If you don’t burn too much meter on him, you can pass it on to the next character or build enough for an easy HD combo into NEOMAX so take your pick.
I covered team ordering and selection and synergy in an article here, but if you’re looking for the ‘Ryu’ character that teaches the fundamentals the best then you should look in to Kyo, Iori, or K’. Knowing how to use and fighting against those three should teach you a lot about KOF. Also look in to these videos.
Kensou and Mai are more spacing/zoning orientated though like everyone they have good offensive options from direct pressure to more passive spacial control. Daimon’s also a spacing monster and learning him should teach you a lot about how grappler okiworks in KOF. I’d recommend Kim if you have a really good knowledge of how to use and space normals effectively since his are really damn good but his specials aren’t too safe without proper proper positioning. Takuma and Karate have some nice offensive options but you’ll need good reactions with both for AAing or nice spacial awareness to account for their stubby normals.
I can’t really comment on how synergy would work between them since it’d depend on your team selection and then order, both of which should be chosen depending on how comfortable you feel with each character in certain situations. So if you want meter for Takuma and Daimon, you’d probably place them second and third and your remaining spot could be filled by Kim/Mai/Kensou, depending on whichever feels the best for you on point and without meter. So if you hate keeping a charge and want a meterless DP for reaction punishes, you’d want Kensou first out of those three.
The short answer is that there isn’t a wrong answer as long as you’re aware of what you’re doing and it feels good.
Sparkster - Thanks for the excellent advice, MUCH appreciated. Got my team in mind now, thanks!
Thanks Sparkster.
In SSFIV I main Cody and it seemed to me like Kim was similar in a few ways (very good normals but risky specials) except the rushdown in KoF is very, very different from SF.
Kensou seemed to me to be a bit like Yun with some crazy rush down but I guess I was wrong (perhaps it was because they look similar).
You can compare them to a degree, but Kensou doesn’t have any sort of Genei Jin, command grab followups, or as many frametraps as 3S/AE Yun. He’s got corner pressure, but not the best rushdown. If you want a Yun divekick for real, play Yuri.
I have a problem when i play Takuma.
My EX Kou’ou ken (qcf.A+C) is too (like geese says) PREDICTABO, how do i surprise my enemi with this or setup him a long range?
Anyone?
It’s hard to alternate guard against Yuri, so don’t be afraid to backdash when in doubt. Some characters hop up high enough to backdash over her sweep should she do cr.B cr.D as a blockstring.
Otherwise try working counters to her divekick setups, namely cr.B st.B xx dp+D > B and the better setup of cr.B cr.B hyper hop j.3B. The former setup usually can be beaten with typical uppercuts and DPs, though the latter setup is more difficult to deal with and your best bet is to usually hit her on the way up with a st.A or to hop backwards with an air-to-air. Your best bet overall is to not let her get in and get enough advantage to start her divekick pressure.
Try not to let her get away with whiffing Saifa too much as you can hit her out of the recovery, especially with a well-timed low attack. Her air fireball isn’t that great, and all of the versions that lock her in the air for a second can either be punished with invuln attacks or sometimes by rolling through and tagging her recovery as she touches down. The grounded version of her air Raikouken is unsafe on block from point blank, so it’s a risky move unless she uses the EX or the heavier versions.
Test out punishes for her EX command grab, since if you can’t punish it she’ll have a safe reversal option to toss out that you can’t counterpoke in any way.
Aside from her tick throws and divekicks, her blockstrings are simplistic and if you keep an eye out for cr.C and cr.D you can try reading a guard roll and punishing her for canceling into Kouken.
^ Cool, I was having some trouble with Yuri in a match this past tournament.
Besides that, I know my execution is rusty (ie Ralf / Vice combo drops in the second match, this is what playing Marvel does to you), I should’ve used guard roll/guard blowback more, and I don’t know how to fight Yuri. Any other advice?
My Tournament Match
[media=youtube]slaMStpmJO8[/media]
Decided to go back to my KOFXII team of Clark/Kensou/Claw Iori at my last tournament - even though I’d only played Kensou for a week and Clark for a day at that point (in KOFXIII, of course), I managed to get just one match away from finals just playing them the way I played them in KOFXII. (As well as just applying stuff I had seen from streams, like dacidbro’s sweep into fireball spam and BALA’s Clark play)
So, I’ll probably stick with that team, if I can get results like that with such little time put in with them. I actually got eliminated by Yuri in that tournament as well, so my question:
How do I escape from Yuri’s Vortex? What are my most effective options?
Also, what are Benimaru’s weaknesses? What have I got to work with if I’m playing against a Benimaru who isn’t making stupid mistakes?
Can anyone direct me to some good Takuma gameplay? I’m still lost on how he should be played, how to aa and the spacing I should be with him (his normals feel on the slow end of things), etc. Checked Mad Kof’s channel but didn’t find anything.
Sparkster pretty much listed what to do in her “vortex” situations. Be prepared to anti air at all times. Her demon flip is actually pretty easy to anti air if you look for it(A lot of Yuri’s try to go braindead auto pilot with the cr.B, st.B. demon flip B string. Myself included). The only thing I can think of at the moment is try to hit her out of the air with something quick and reliable. Someone more credible could probably tell you better than I.
I know that can be said about the A version, but what about the C version? I know you can hit her out of the start up if you space yourself correctly, but isn’t it active for a while and recovers almost immediately after the active period ends?
The heavy Saifa can still be punished with really long cr.Bs and most sweeps, and there’s very few recovery frames on whiff while the reflector’s animation is active. As long as you’re feeling out the spacing and you have your poke ready, you can try hitting her. Due to the fast recovery, you’re best off hitting her while it’s active, but if you end up blocking it then she’s unpunishable. You could see how far you get trying to run forward and sweep her whenever she does it, since the worst she could do is EX DM or EX hcb+K you unless the sweep is really late in which case she could hop it.
Here’s an oddball question:
Anybody have a legend for the symbols used in trial mode? ie: What’s the green “line break” arrow mean, etc? Looked in the manual but didn’t find anything.
The green arrow is braking from a certain move similar to FADC in SF except without a cost of meter
anything i should do when i’m facing a hwa who’s drunk? just block it all/wait for a chance to roll out? any pattern/move i should look out for to punish? seems like he just goes nuts once he’s drunk. i guess just downback and try to fight through it?
also probably a really dumb question but can you tech grabs from neutral/neutral crouching?
I’m pretty new to KOF and to fighting games in general, I’m having difficulty with button imputs; I usually have to mash a few times to get the attacks out. Anyone got any tips? I’m using a Hori V3 fightstick for the PS3.
Only advice I can give you is: Don’t mash the buttons for it to come out. Instead, figure out what you’re doing wrong, and try do do it clean. Put the input display on in trainingmode and just look what’s up.