So I was playing against someone on the arcade and linked the Mega Psycho Crusher from cr mk, after doing jab, jab, cr. mk, Mega psycho crusher. but according to the frame data that shouldn’t be possible right? or am I reading it wrong? Because cr. mk leaves you at +5 and don’t all supers have at least 5 frames of start up? or is there something about the super freeze that makes this possible? I can’t really tell because I don’t know how to read the frame data for the supers, the start up part is confusing.
Also, this would lead to a questioon about super freezes in general, because they must eat input frames or something, because, why can’t you block after the super freeze for lvl 3 supers, like at the begining of a round against guile if he opens with the Sonic Hurricane, you can’t block it unless you were already blocking, but I mean supers have startup and it can’t take 5 frames to block so why can’t you block it? Super Freezes are weird.
Are you sure it was a link after the d.MK and not a cancel?
According to my CvS2 book…
Level 1’s freeze time for 3 frames.
Level 2’s freeze time for 5 frames.
Level 3’s freeze time for 7 frames.
Who cares why something works or not. As long as you know it works and is reliable, then use it and love it I say. I’ll activate random Geese super in other guy’s face all day for example since they can’t block unless they were already blocking and I’m safe anyway if I miss.
kcxj:
Casual match videos are inconsistent. If you play a good Dhalsim player with K-CBS 20 times, you are going to get near-OCV’d one of those times. Do you think the guy that runs the match video site is gonna post that one video of Dhalsim doing well or pick one of the 19 winning with K-CBS? No point in getting annoyed at casual matches being gimmicky. That’s what they do. No surprise there.
KabukiMono:
Not all CvS2 supers have 5 frames of pre-superfreeze startup. Bison’s supers have 4 frames of pre-superfreeze startup. Bison’s c.MK yields +5 frames. Lvl3 psycho crusher has 4 frames post-superfreeze startup (minus 7 frames time freeze).
+5 - 4 - 4 + 7 = +4
That works and even leaves 3 frames for Bison to travel forward before he has to hit anything. The only catch is that if you use something with less frame advantage than pre-superfreeze startup, you’ll never get to the time-freeze frames in time.
Regarding the Guile Sonic Hurricane opener, you always have 5 frames to start blocking. It’s not like he can make the screen freeze on the first frame of the round. The best he can do is the 6th frame. So after that you can’t block just like you can’t block if you were standing next to him 20 seconds into the round.
that was actually just an inside joke. money match me in 3s at evo? :tup:
there’s a reason why iyo is such a respected player in japan: he’s the real deal. those are old videos from a qualifying tourney for last year’s sbo2, where iyo basically ran through the entire tourney by himself. version (a-joe player) got to play a few times because he went first against a couple teams. the rest of those videos were available at one point, but i doubt they’re still up. maybe those guys are planning to re-release them.
and just so you know, every american cvs2 player that has played iyo (basically all the big names) have gotten dominated by iyo and his dhalsim. especially if they use k-groove. he’s actually one of the players who gets the most ocvs that ive seen (first being makoto’s p-kyo, then maybe dan’s c-ryu)
…and i have to ask again, what does it take for you to approve of the players playing in a vid?
I only wanted to ask your opinion if Dhalsim was really as cheesy as this video makes him out to be. Big Head gave me his answer already and it’s a hilarious one. I hear your answer that yes, Iyo playing Dhalsim really IS that intimidating so I’ll respect that too.
I’ve posted so much on what I think is good play already in this forum. What more is there to ask? This was only one video, but you’ve played long enough to obviously tell whether a player is good or not by watching his matches. Moreso than me even since I know you have more game experience also.
I was suprised to see Dhalsim beat K-groove so badly that’s all. I’ve never ever seen Dhalsim dominate ANYONE this badly until I saw this particular match.
It looked like the K-groover had a lot of opportunities to regain the momentum but jumped back or something instead. If he had took the opportunity to use his low jump or work the guard meter a little more, then I wouldn’t of glanced twice at this video. It would just be Iyo beasting on bums like usual (his Rolento is my favorite character to watch). This match only stood out because the K-groover lost so badly and was afraid to press any buttons that’s all.
hmm… there’s another vid of Ver beasting the crap out of some other guy from the same website as well. Every single random mixup Ver goes for, the other guy gets hit by. I HIGHLY doubt that’s what happens on a regular basis and against better players. Jump in activate always working? Like five crazy DP’s in a row? I know the Joe’s DP has long startup so it looks like he’s going to throw you and you get faked, but come on, nobody guesses right that many times in a row on a regular basis.
The guy Ver was playing against either has a mashing problem or was unlucky that day. Japanese players are really good in general so he gets the benefit of the doubt that he was having a bad day against the randomness.
Two vids of odd character dominance like this can’t be a coincidence. Nerds who want to have sex with video game characters like Finalshodown and Canadian scrubs trolls like (the)Geese eat it up, but I’m starting to agree with lzj now. Japan are posting up these one in one hundred crazy matches on purpose to throw off the US players, and then they send three A-scrub team players to RC everything that shit to Evo this year.
if you chicken block something, like a jump in, are you guaranteed to have the frame advantage on landing? and is this frame advantage enough to always get some sort of free combo?
For example, if I am Bison(dictator) and I chicken block a sagat Jumpin RH, can I always land and get some sort of free combo on him?
Oh and in your experience how useful is Bison(dictators) head stomp? When and where should it be used?
Usually the best time to counter Bisons blocked scissor kicks is when its a 2 hit that wasn’t spaced properly. A cr. MK will take care of those most of the time. But most times, one hit scissors aren’t punishable. Only a few characters can do it.
Buk made a list a while back.
Blanka: cr. mk/cr. lk
Sagat: cr. mk/cr. lk
With the spacing, you want to watch for when Bison is a tiny bit less than half screen away from you. He can use to range to make you whiff by walking back a little bit as you might try to attack. This gives him a charge and he can punish you.
Common spacing setups:
cr. short, cr. jab, cr. forward
This puts you just outside of Cammy’s st. RH range.
cr. jab x3
This is good because it allows you to option select a dash xx throw/counter hit jab OR a counter hit st. strong into one hit scissor or cr. strong into 2 hit scissor.
cr. jab x3, st. strong
This can be used to land a one hit scissor, or setup a hit because this puts you at about half screen range.
For example, Sagat can try to attack him with st. forward, but because of the spacing, it’ll whiff and Bison can punish in death.
Keep in mind that the max range in these setups are half screen. So think about that when you attack with certain characters.
What’s up Paul? It’s cool to see you posting in the CvS2 forum. Bison’s two-hit short Scissors Kick leaves him at -7. I don’t know which characters you like in CvS2, but it’s possible to punish with Sagat’s four frame d.MK into super every time. If Bison did the one hit Scissors Kick, it’s still possible to punish as long as you’re within range of your Sagat d.MK, but the timing to land your d.MK is a lot tighter. Tiger Uppercut to punish is inconsistent because you never know when your distancing might just be a pixel or two off, so I don’t like it.
A reversal Ken Level 2 punch super will punish two-hit scissors. If I have no meter, I like to use just d.MK. Also s.LK xx hcf+K. If the Bison player REALLY messed up and did the Scissors at point blank range on you, then I use close s.HP xx hcf+K, a Shoryuken, or d.LK, d.LK xx super. I bet you could land a Ken s.LP even. But yeah, just reversal super or d.MK have been the most reliable punishers for me personally.
With Blanka, s.LP has the easiest timing since it’s a two frame attack (but no range). Otherwise, d.LK xx super is all you need. If you have A-groove, that’s even better because you can do activate, d.LK xx some bullshit.
basically what other people said. the generic punishment for 2 hit scissors is a quick low forward into whatever super. since you’re cheap and use sak bison blanka:
sak: standing short xx dp
bison: low forward xx rh scissors, cc, win. stand jab xx forward scissors probably works too and is easier
blanka: standing jab xx ball
reversal dps work if your dp goes far enough like sagat, kyo or iori. reversal supers will usually work also, but remember that supers have 4-5 frame startup in this game as opposed to 3s
for 1 hit scissors, it’s best not to try to punish them lest you’ll eat a random cc or something. it’s generally kinda obvious when bison is trying to space 1 hit scissors. walk up closer and block to force the 2 hit scissors, then punish. 1 hit scissors is about at sagat standing short range
Why can’t I punish Sagat’s blocked Level 3 Tiger Raid with my own reversal Tiger Uppercut? The book says the super leaves the opponent’s Sagat at -4 and my Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut comes out in three frames. I should have a one frame window right? I haven’t been able to get this once. I thought whether I blocked standing or crouching might have something to do with this, but I can’t tell the difference. Neither way of blocking has let me punish with Tiger Uppercut.
I go for s.LP xx Tiger Uppercut to punish a blocked Sagat super usually since I assume I have a two frame window. If this is really a one frame timing move though (like not being able to punish with Tiger Uppercut is making it seem), then forget it.
I know all your characters can duck under the super anyway, but I’m assuming against K-groove you don’t even try to punish Sagat’s Level 3 since K-opponent’s can JD earlier than they can block anyway?
edit: I found it interesting that you said it’s not worth trying to punish Bison’s one hit Scissors kick always. I thought about how I can apply that tip and now I want to know what you think about Sagat’s super as well. I shouldn’t always try to punish maybe? I’m about to pull a fanboy and call up Choi to ask what he does.
Oh, if anybody would like a tip to punish this super, at the end of the super, Sagat crouches there for a split second. During that time, however short or long it is, he totally can’t block and you can land two-frame attacks like Sagat or Ken’s s.LP’s on him. Bison’s d.LP xx death works too but I don’t condone using that in a real match.
Buktooth: I use A-Hibiki (poorly), and it seems the only options she has against meaty attacks is reversal roll, activate, and KKK dodge (maybe lvl 1 supers, but that seems such a waste). Since I cant mash to get the reversal easily like I can with dragon punch characters or flashkick/rising taco characters, are there any tips or tricks you use with your N-Hibiki to get the reversal roll or reversal KKK to come out more reliably? I know to hold back to option select block, but I would like to get the roll or dodge more reliably. Rush down Kens and Kyos are eating me up.
I use Vega/Sak/Blanka actually. I’m looking for counters to 2 hit scissors mainly with Sak and Blanka.
You guys have been saying 2 hit scissors are punishable… is that spacing dependant? Do I need to eyeball whether or not it’s too close? Or is every blocked 2 hit scissors able to be reversed by activation?
forgive if this is already been answered, but i’m just not going to continue reading through hundreds of pages to find the answer.
every time i tell someone i play the game, the first question is “can you roll cancel?”
no, because i don’t even know what the hell it is. just cancelling a roll into an attack? or cancelling an attack into a roll? if you know how, please explain the technique of it, even if you can’t do it yourself.
