it pends on the character really, some are easier to sweep than others. makoto is easier to juggle with jab mgbs…idk. just sweep x 5 into forward ducking upper still does really good damage.
yo epsilon i do find myself just sweeping and then ducking alot when i feel pressure lol
hey that’s phil ivey in your avatar…do you play poker?
damn i didnt even notice those eyes that quick.
Phil ivey is the man.
yeah poker is the shit suupaa. i’m testing the juggles today to find the most damaging and easy to execute. i’m pretty sure it’s just gonna be 5 sweeps and a ssb or ducking upper, but like we said b/f it’s harder to sweep some characters that many times.
and ssb is never always guaranteed, at least not for me, so i think i’ll stick with ducking for tournament play, casual, shit’ let’s wild out son!
Does Dudley always have problems against Makoto? I always have a problem with this one guy playing as her, all he uses is that damn grab into HP into ex hayate, or something along those lines, and also uses that HK. I saw those vids that GGM put up in his other post about Dudley’s Critique against Izu. It’s somewhat like that except he uses less HK like Izu does. Anything you guys can help me with?
use duck to get close and mix it up. put the pressure on her, if she’s rushing you, it is no fun. you have to rush smart though, b/c one grab equals rape against a good makoto. use the f fp and rh. ex mgb sweep juggles. just make sure to take off max damage when you get your chances, this is key in general but really key against makoto, who in my opinion is one of the baddest bitches ever in fighting games.
her dash is quick too, you have to be able to react really fast against her, just take your oppurtunities and run with them against her. and if she has bar for abare, don’t poke to build meter, just don’t do it unless it’s safe.
learn the range on her command throw(karakusa) and stay out of that shit’s way. learn the kara range too. jump her anti airs arent’ that many parries.
get her in the corner and lock her down with the rose and mix ups. grind it out and be patient.
veterans please come in and give solid advice mine is just principles in a way.
dudley research on juggles
done on full health chun li standing in corner.
this isn’t all the combinations but i just got around to it and i’ll post up more as i do them and see which one’s i haven’t done yet.
damage amount / combo
68 : 5 cr. rh’s, ducking straight add on csb and it does 81
67 : 5 sweeps, ducking upper add on csb it does 80
70: 4 sweeps, lp mgb, lp ssb add on csb it does 82
62 : 5 sweeps, hp reset which leads to guessing high low
57 : S. rh, ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, 2 sweeps
65 : s. rh., ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, sweep, ssb
61: 5 sweeps into dart shot reset for high low guessing
56 : st. rh., ex mgb, 5 sweeps
62 : st. rh, ex mgb, lp mgb f+mk into hp upper
63 : st. rh, ex mgb, 2 sweeps, lp mgb, f+mk, hp upper
the last two do the same damage almost and one is 2 more hits…wtf?
now look at the below same damage dif. variation. one less sweep is only 1 point dif?!
62: st. rh, ex mgb, sweep, lp mgb, f+mk hp upper
61 : 6 sweeps lol easy as shit to the others and same damgae with no bar usage.
There’s more and i’ll do em later. my question is why the weird damage reduction and on the st. rh. into ex mgb combos can you only do five juggles after that b/c the ex counts as one?
if anybody wants to do more feel free i’m gonna do the others sometime soon!
Anyone have tips on how to break down a turtling/zoning chun?
I played one today, and it was hell. Jumping in was a problem, because her back fierce was destroying my shit. Trying to keep her pinned was hell. And then tick kara throws…ggpo. (funny, i use that, but i dont know the exact meaning of it.) Is there a certain way to have more success? Or is it just do what you can, and on paper i’m at an disadvantage?
yes youre at big disadvantage against a turtling chun on paper, and irl. its a tough match, its not unwinnable, but you have to take calculated risks, and be unafraid. every chun has holes in her defense, once u get in and if its a jab masher chun do option selects, like c.lk walk up down parry. once you stop her squirming, then you can mixup better. just try to get her in the corner. basically i mean build meter & hold your ground, (i use sa3 so i get meter faster) then attack chun, but dont make your jumps too obvious. it helps if youre really good at air parrying in this match too. if you know shes gonna tick, kara throw you do c.mp xx duck super to catch her throw attempt. kara throws take longer than normal throws, so it isnt as hard as trying to combo a normal throw attempt.
and yeah scott, u can only do 5 juggles after a ex mgb because the 1st hit counts as one. also damage scaling gets pretty extreme after ex mgb juggles, but the extra hits are still worth it because of the meter you build.
yeah the meter is worth it, damn you are thinking way beyond what i was lol…yeah it builds hella meter, damn son!! i went to training mode without the maximum on, just to see and fuck son, it’s nice.
alright so what juggle builds the most meter? what does the most stun? and what does the most damage? i need to find these out but if someone know post it up son!!
Alright, I’ve got a stupid question here. Not entirely related to dudley, but, whatever. How do you hold a stick? I’ve always used a pad and I’m switching over, but I can’t see to figure out how to hold it. Do you put your palm to the top of it, or what? The best thing I’ve found so far is to hook my thumb over the left side, but then I can’t do a thing when I’m on the right.
Me=Stick Noob.
it just takes an ass load of time. just ask your local players it’s alot easier in person
way easier in fact. but having the layout of an arcade stick makes it way easier esp having the buttons laid out better.
well about this…i wouldnt use straight up duck vs makoto at all because is really vulnerable to dash grab. i use alot of c.mp in the beginning and try to walk back and get meter. just plain ol’ s.fp is great in this match too because it stays out for a while and does really good damage and stun. i dont use s.mp much at all because when makoto dashes, she goes under it -_-. i use f+fp sparingly because of its startup, making it more vulnerable to dash grab. early j.rh is really good in this matchup, but DO NOT JUMP TOO MUCH. a good makoto will do s.lk xx ex dp into super jump cancel fp which does HUGE stun. another dash grab, s.fp xx ex hayate WILL stun you. so watch out for that. i dont suggest jumping in on makoto if shes in the corner, unless youre sure she is gonna wakeup karakusa or something, and even still, if you mistime youre jump you will get parried, into grab, into sa2 because shes in the corner. when makoto has an sa2 stocked it is no longer safe to meaty her low because sa2 gets off the ground instantly, and will smack you, into big damage/stun/you losing the match. so lots of high hitting moves (if the makoto player knows this, watch out for high parries, because they really are good for makoto in this situation). short swing blow is good in this match after hayates IF you think shes gonna grab, its gets owned up by s.lk xx hayate and c.lk xx hayate.
hey epsilon, thanks for the tactic, it worked really well. I’ve still got to work on the not jumping too much thing though, it’s kinda hard because I use j.RH into Rocket upper alot against this guy’s Makoto. You guys have been a good help, wish I could see you guys fight on the arcades, must be f-in sweet to have arcades with SF3 cabinets and stuff. Up here in Canada, some cities have most of their arcades dying, especially in Manitoba…but once again thanks for all the info against Makoto…
yeah your right about the duck straight, i meant to put like in situations when you have meter and want to mix it up. but yeah random duck is not good lol, pwned…
okay like is it better to just flat out turtle until you get bar with dudley i mean like what do you do first round basically?
Playing 3S a while, but a just started to use Dudley. Got the very basics down, could you give me a quick list of good/practical enders to:
s.rh xx ex mgb…
Also, I’ve seen people do:
c.rh XX Ducking into Upper XX Cocrkscrew
Could you elaborate on that combo a bit as I can never connect the Ducking.
thanks
to really improve your game read both threads started by epsilon, they have great contributions from really good players, pay special attention to the posts by epsilon, kal el, sir jiggles, and a very small few of mine lol!
on that ducking into super combo, do mk ducking then press kick then do another qcf into p for super to come out
sweep is cr. rh.
on character that can be swept 6 times do S. rh ex mgb into
sweep, lp mgb, sweep, lp mgb, lp ssb super or not
simple and high damage in the heat of a match don’t go for max hits unless your really comfortable with the character.
on people that can’t be swept alot
st. rh ex mgb into lp mgb, lp ssb works
or st. rh ex mgb, press forward, forward+mk, into an ex upper, as soon as you land press forward and do an hp upper
very high damage and stun.
pwnage combos by kal el
in the chains section, particularly the s. short, s. forward, s. strong, s. fierce chain, you mention that if you stop at s. forward that you can link into super. that much is obvious, , but you can still link into super after the s. strong portion. probably another obvious point.
if i may, i’ll list the combos i use and on which characters i use them on.
vs. Shotos, Urien, Hugo, Twelve & Twins midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut/Ducking Straight
- c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut/Ducking Straight
- c. roundhouse -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Shotos, Urien, Hugo, Twelve & Twins in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> jab MGB -> short SSB
- c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> EX Jet Uppercut -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> jab MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut or SSB
vs. Urien and Twelve #3 is done without jab MGB. so after the EX Jet, it’s twds + forward x fierce Jet.
vs. Hugo #3 looks like so: c. roundhouse -> EX Jet Uppercut -> s. strong x fierce Jet Uppercut
vs. Chun-Li midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Chun-Li in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> forward Ducking Uppercut/Ducking Straight
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 3 -> jab MGB -> short SSB
- c. roundhouse x 5 -> forward Ducking Uppercut/Ducking Straight
- c. roundhouse x 4 -> jab MGB -> short SSB
vs. Elena midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse -> dash -> c. strong x fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> c. roundhouse -> dash -> c. strong x fierce Jet Uppercut
vs. Elena in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> fierce Jet Uppercut -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse x 5 -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> fierce Jet Uppercut -> fierce Jet Uppercut
vs. Makoto midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
#2 isn’t as easy as it sounds, so if i’m wanting to secure a match, i’ll just do c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut/Ducking Straight.
vs. Makoto in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB-> c. roundhouse x 2 -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> dash -> s. strong x fierce Jet Uppercut (thank you, YellowS4 )
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> fierce Jet Uppercut
#3 is the combo i use most often vs. Makoto in the corner because it’s the easiest . and yeah, you can begin all of the corner ones with a c. roundhouse instead.
vs. Dudley midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> c. roundhouse -> dash -> fierce Jet Uppercut
vs. Dudley in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse x 5 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> jab MGB -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Q midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> short SSB
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> jab MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
i’ve never tried to sweep Q more than once midscreen. i’ll have to try that out.
vs. Q in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> fierce Jet Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> fierce Jet Uppercut -> s. strong x fierce Jet Uppercut
both may be initiated with c. roundhouse instead. i’m sure you guys already know that .
vs. Remy midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut
not sure if you can sweep him twice, so if i do land a c. roundhouse midscreen, i go for the super basic forward Ducking Uppercut finisher!
vs. Remy in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> EX Jet Uppercut -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
vs. Ibuki -> i don’t get to play vs. Ibuki at all . i do know you can multi-sweep her in the corner.
vs. Necro midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Necro in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse x 5 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Alex midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> twds + forward x fierce Jet Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Alex in the corner
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> c. roundhouse x 4 -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- EX SSB -> strong Jet Uppercut
#2 can also be done vs. Hugo.
vs. Oro midscreen
- s. roundhouse x EX MGB -> forward Ducking Uppercut
- c. roundhouse -> c. roundhouse -> forward Ducking Uppercut
vs. Oro in the corner
same as Remy.
heres’ some wake up stuff that pwns very hard.
from kal el
on standing opponents
after blocked c. short, c. short, i do UOH -> super or UOH -> c. strong x duck xx super.
c. short x short duck -> throw
c. short x short duck -> s. roundhouse x duck xx super (if s. roundhouse hits)
if s. roundhouse does not hit, after the duck walk up and c. short, c. short xx super
blocked s. forward, s. roundhouse chain -> s. roundhouse x duck xx super
on opponent’s wake up
empty jump -> SSB xx super
whiffed twds + forward as they’re getting up -> c. short, c. short xx super (i got this from watching Vic footage)
whiffed twds + forward -> throw
whiffed c. short -> twds + roundhouse -> super
whiffed UOH -> c. short, c. short xx super
whiffed UOH -> SSB xx super
whiffed UOH -> throw
whiffed s. forward -> throw
whiffed s. jab -> s. roundhouse x duck xx super
it really helps when you get to see footage of top level Dudley players 'cuz then you can incorporate some of what they do to your play style.
the one i “stole” from Vic, i found that it’s helped my wake-up beasting tons. whiffing twds + forward on your opponent’s wake-up will more often than not make them block high because it’s a high hitting move. sure you can block it low, but it’s a natural tendency for people to block high hitters high, yeah? so take advantage of that. when they start to expect c. shorts after a whiffed twds + forward, then you mix it up.
vs. one of my buddies here, i had 3 Corks stocked, it was round 3 and in one sequence after a knock down, i whiffed twds + forward as he was getting up -> c. short, c. short xx super = knock down. as he was getting up, i once again whiffed twds + forward but instead of going for c. shorts, i did twds + roundhouse -> super. it worked 'cuz i hit him with lots of c. shorts xx super after whiffing twds + forward. so after that 2nd knock down, i again whiffed twds + forward (getting redundant, yeah?) but instead of doing a high/low mix-up, i did SSB (Kokujin does this a lot) and sure enough, i see him whiff a throw. so yeah, xx’d into super . just like that, baby!
the ducking set-ups (i got the idea from watching Jima) work really well too. after you do say, c. short x duck and attempt to throw, first few times you will probably throw them, but after a while, they’ll start to get “smart” and they’ll try to tech it. for this doing SSB right after is excellent. however, sometimes they’ll try to poke you low after doing a duck, so SSB will get hit by it. this is where you do the s. roundhouse after the first ducking sequence. s. roundhouse will outprioritize pretty much anything they try to poke you with (a c. strong or c. jab most likely) and if you see it hit, CANCEL INTO A SUPER!
can the sweep x 6 juggle on Makoto and co. only be done on the PS2 version or can it happen for both DC and PS2 versions? Cuz I get never get it to work on my DC version of 3S.
IIRC wasn’t there a thread a while back stating that you could force opponents to wake up standing with a high move? Does this apply to twd+fwd?
i’m not sure about that, but if it’s meaty on the one “standing” frame i believe it can happen, cause i’ve did that move whiffed, then meaty, and then went right into lk lk super alot before. so i guess so, i don’t know if that’s my opponents reaction time or not, but it seems that the stun length could last long enough for another mix up, ya know?