Like I said, that the point. It’s not just about throwing three random characters together. Doing that isn’t creative, it’s just silly. If you want to do that, there are casuals. But to think that you can do that at a tournament (even a “low tier” tournament), that isn’t the best line of thinking.
And you can definitely work your team that way, it is a viable tactic. But I think Nova benefits more from Unibeam, and Iron Man from Hidden Missiles. But I think you’re mistaken on something. I never said the team value couldn’t equal 12, just couldn’t exceed it. So by your tiers, it is a perfectly useable team (and pretty creative).
But you are right about the decision thing. We are nowhere near a good consensus on where every character is in the scope of things. So I don’t see my plan being used anytime soon.
But that brings to the point the original topic, and my answer to it. No, I do not think we are at a point to have a low-tier tournament, nor do I think that it is feasible concept in this particular game. In MVC2, there were about 8-10 viable characters, perfect breeding ground for a low tier tournament. In this game, I couldn’t consider anyone out of the bottom 15 unviable. You could run a tournament with those characters, but it would become a shallow experience. I think a different approach must be considered, because there is far too much derp in this game.
I mostly picked those characters because they can quickly end the match off of one hit. If you want to run Spider-“My assists are ass”-Man second for the infinites, go right on ahead. The thing about MODOK and Trish is that you still get access to top assists if the character is ass on point. So, even if I were to run Iron Fist or Ghost Rider against Trish and MODOK, I would still be able to select anti-air assists like Jam Session or Vajra. Part of it is just sticking with you ass characters against bad match-ups, which is pretty much the whole point of a low-tier tourney.
For spider man I mean u run him on point and have a character who can do his incoming guard break while also having a TACfintie at the same time.also u mentioned strider and doom in you’re ban list so no anti air assists beside jam and most characters can’t confirm off that
To be fair, Spidey is so underused that I think seeing him in action would be a welcome change of pace. Might give the guy some much needed exposure. Also, I never put Doom or Strider on the ban list because their assists can really highlight the potential of low tier characters. If you ban Doom, you pretty much have to ban Sentinel and Strange too because they have similar support values.
Okay u got me on the doom/strider ban thing.however if spidey got big uses people would praboly like it until people see how fucking stupid that GB shit is.also sent and strange have only 1 great assist, and one mediocre assist each,and their point play is mediocre.also strange doesn’t have a safe dhc And sents can be punished by super jumping.doom has 3 great assists(yes even rocks is a great assist thing destroys horizontal movement based chacters )has a safe DHC,one of the most damaging DHC,decent point play(probably top 25 point)and have some of the easiest,most damaging solo combos in the game
The way they do it in some kof2002UM tournaments in Japan is they assign a rank value to a character and they put a total limit on your team (say, 20). Then the sum of the rank values of the characters on a team can’t exceed that total.
This works well in kof2k2um because it isn’t that team oriented. They were mainly trying to prevent players from just picking K’, Kasumi, Nameless all day and they did this by putting a really high rank value on these characters do that you can’t pick any two of them on a team and you are forced to use lower ranked characters if you picked any one of those three. The kof2k2um tournaments that use this format are pretty fun to watch, though I’m not sure how well it will work for marvel because it’s very synergy based.
I remember using that same thing with KOF13 arcade. But in a game like this I don’t think it works. Even having shit/shit/vergil is pretty dumb and wouldn’t really let the low tiers shine.
I was a big part of the low tier mvc2 community, even won a srk.com tournament and just Florida in general won it for a straight month. If you go back and look @ those threads, you can see myself in there explaining to people what the low tier system should be. Those point ier systems are f-ing terrible, don’t use them. Low tier systems thrive better on a regular format, the whole point system ends up fucking up the low tier rules. The whole point of having a low tier bracket is to figure out which of those characters are actually good. By having a tier\point system, any new\old player will look @ that tier\point system and thus choose their teams based off that rather than having genuinely unique ideas. You don’t want tier whores, you want people to come up with other good builds to explore the game a bit deeper.
To have a low tier system, there has to be joint consensus proof as to whom is top, whom isn’t and which characters ride that line. For this to happen in mvc2, it took about 5 years to actually have a nice ideal concrete understanding and then in year 8-9, it changed a bit here and there.
As I see it, I play this game every single day, we’re not quite there yet but it is getting closer. We know MOST of the tops and better assists in the game but there are quite a few characters people would consider low whom actually aren’t like x23\spidey who can end up killing a whole team on hit.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.
I think in terms of making a list, we should just start with a rough list for now. And after a bit of testing we’ll be able to say “hey this character is too strong for low tiers” and move them up, or say “hey I think this character could work in low tiers without being overpowering” and move that character down.
Obviously we don’t want to just speculate and make a list and call it final. We should make a prototype list and then continuously test it until we’re happy.
We just need a few good theory guys to sit down and make up a quick list. Try it out for a bit and then change it up how we see fit.
banned: zero, vergil, doom, morrigan, spencer, magneto, phoenix, wolvy, nova, dormamu, dante, strider, wesker, amaterasu, joe, modok, trish, frank west, c.viper (hope I didn’t miss any obvious ones)
thats a pretty good rough list, i’ll talk to mixup to see what he thinks but I do foresee a problem. In mvc2, the better assists in the game were mid tier characters. However in 3, the better assists seem to be top tier characters. What this does it COMPLETELY fuck up the team builds. The whole point of a low tier league is to allow the bums to start building god like teams but if you take away the best assists in the game, they have to build with bum assists and I really don’t want that. I want low tier characters to have doom beam if that is the beam that makes them the best character they can be. Now see, doom is actually a so so character but what about strider? some of the low tiers definitely use him but now the problem is, low tier league has power anchors in it? EVERY team will just be xxx\xxx\strider and I don’t want that to happen.
it’ll take some work but I think it can happen. part of the reason this is a lot harder than in part 2 is because the low tier stuff didn’t really take off until the game came out online which is like year 8-9 iirc. we had that much time to decipher what was too good and what wasn’t. Its barely year 3 for this game so creating this group is a much harder because we have less than 50% of the time 2 had to make the same call.
the whole point of a low tier league is to allow bums a shot to display what they’re capable of. Dark phoenix prevents that, strider prevents that, morrigan prevents that. What is the point of banning vergil when people will just run morrigan next? looks really good for arthur!!!
I’ve been down this path in the previous generation while also being one of the better low tiers players @ the end of mvc2. Its close to 10 years of playing low tiers in marvel games, I know how the system should be formatted.