I can teach any able bodied person who wants to learn how to throw a hadouken how to do it in under 10 minutes and how to do it 95% of the time in 2-3 hours. Not to put down other peoples efforts, but if you can’t teach someone how to hadouken consistantly within a few hours the problem is most likeIy not a learning problem for them, its probably a teaching problem on your end.
I taught my mom how to throw a hadouken, its really not that hard.
I used “Hadouken” for my Air Force Basic Instructor Course “Demonstration Performance” presentation.
I drafted a standard lesson plan with main points/subpoints. Then made a powerpoint that covered the evolution of the animation, basic input system, and how to show inputs so you can evaluate your errors. Then I had each member of the class do a practice session before they were evaluated. It was nerdy yeah, but also a lot of fun for the class. Everyone learned it in less than 10 minutes and one guy even nailed an ultra.
It’s not concession. Here’s the difference, moron.
HARD - Doing some of C Viper’s ultra set ups, her feints, 1 frame links. No matter how long you practice these things will also be HARD. This could take you hours, weeks or months to be able to do consistently but it will never be 100%
WORK - Reading a paragraph or two on a match up, finding out what is safe against that character, what isn’t, which set ups to use and which to avoid. This should take you minutes if not seconds to read. If this is taking you hours, weeks or months to read 2 paragraphs then you’re a simpleton and playing video games should be the least of your worries. I would worry more about not falling over whilst walking.
If you want to consider reading a paragraph and doing a 1 frame in a 60fps game the same thing, then you really suck at reading, pal.
I totally disagree. If you ever go over to the Team Liquid forums (which is essentially SRK to the SC2 crowd) the answer to almost any newbie question related to “how do I not suck/how do I improve” is pretty much always: work on your macro. Good mechanics/execution alone will take you very far in RTS.
I think execution entry level matter differs from game to game i.e
I have people that don’t mind losing once they know the controls but they hate playing tekken because they cant grasp a firm understanding/consistency of movement/frames, in a game where it matters the absolute most.
but mostly its not… the “casual” gamers most people are mentioning, are people that have the attention span of a gnat (or are simply playing to humor their /friends) and probably struggle to learn powersliding in mario kart
there is some disparity between being competent and good
if your question asks for the former then yes fighting games are easy to learn. the latter…eh
Comparing between genres is a pretty big thing and not only you are not even trying to do a decent job at it, but you also involve unrelated shit.
Whoever chooses to do this or that event has NOTHING to do with comparing mechanics of genres. And just to address that- “esports” businesses are adopting genres and titles that are the most popular, no matter what they are. This also includes games where you have to grind to get a capable avatar.
Not hard. I consider myself pretty casual. More enthusiast casual but w/e. I only play hardcore for like the first two weeks (20-40hrs per week) to learn the engine/mechanics and etc. Right now I am clocking in maybe 4-6 hours a week in general but I’m doing OK in these games.
Fighting games are hard(comparatively). There is no need to fool yourselves. Whether it is simply picking them up, or competing, fighting games are probably some of the hardest games out there to get into for the average person.
I have observed many times as I tried to introduce new people to FGs, that doing simple motions consistently was a pain in the ass for them. Never mind DP or HCB motions. And this is only the most basic part of it.
I know it comes across as weird(how could anyone have difficulty doing a QCF motion??), but keep in mind people here have been practicing for YEARS and obviously have a very skewed perspective on this issue.
Saying they simply require practice does not invalidate the fact that they are indeed hard. Too hard though is a stretch. Nothing is too hard.
Guilty Gear is actually more easy than what many people think, yes it has stuff that you need to learn and practice to get the full potential of your character, but at the same time it gives the player a lot of stuff that is easy to do.
Not every bnb requires frc’s or 1 frame links, not every combo is character specific, and more importantly, the major part of the game doesn’t revolve around combos like many people like to believe, jut look some high level play, a good portion of the damage comes from simple combos and random hits during the neutral game, the harder stuff is quite situational and requires resources.
I am not saying that is easy, but it is not as difficult as the urban legends say.
I know it’s just a game but comparing fighting games to actual martial arts makes so much more sense in these type of arguments/discussions than comparing them to other video games, especially certain genres.
In my opinion, Guilty Gear actually rewards SF style fundamentals and spacing about 5 times more than Marvel does.
I’d say yes. Just because no two fighters are exactly alike. Even minor differences or keeping the same fundamental character (let’s say a shoto) and just changing the input for a Super/Ultra could be a HUGE change. FPS/Platformer/Beat 'em up/Puzzle games are relatively the same. If you know the fundamentals in one it applies to all of them. Not so much in fighters. The differences between a 2D fighter and a 3D fighter are big. Even just adding a block button is a huge change that takes a lot of getting used to.
Reading is hard to learn. That’s why we spend ~12 years teaching people to do it in school. Reading seems easy now because most of us have been doing it for a time measured in decades. Even so, you’d probably be surprised to find out how bad most people are at reading, particularly the comprehension part. And you’ll never be 100% at it either. People misread things all the time.
Nothing stays hard forever though; things get easier the more you practice them. C.Viper shenanigans? Hard at first because she makes you push a lot of buttons and do some awkward (for SF) stuff. But you have like all day to actually do most of it. If you play C.Viper at all seriously there is mostly no reason for you to ever fuck up a FFF.
And if you still want to make that distinction, you have to realize it’s largely arbitrary. People love to bring up 1f links as “hard stuff” in fighting games. There are things in FGs that are hard for me, but 1f links are not one of them. I played some SF4 the other day and for whatever reason decided I would pick Ryu. I don’t play Ryu; I don’t even remember the last time I actually practiced a link with him, but I was nailing 1f sweep links all day. I’m not sure I actually missed one over about 2 hours of play.
Marvel isn’t pick-up-and-play. It’s more “pick up and get your combos down, which depending on your character, will be a lot or a little of a dexterity grind.”
ArcSys games have a bigger learning curve but, IMO, much less stringent execution requirements.
The word you are probably looking for is “versatility” for different levels of execution.
Capcom games in general have almost none of it (for totally different reasons in each title) and ASW games have a lot of it for the most part.
If you have to put any practice time in just to play at a competently casual level it’s going to be “too hard” for the average player. It’s sad that most gamers quickly tire of games where you have to learn more than what button does what but it’s the reality. I blame the emergence of console shooters.
I think the problem is for most fighting games people go in ready to land some Crazy Combos, and Practice said Crazy Combos.
Then they play a real opponent, have NO IDEA how to set up the Hit to land a Big Combo, Rage and Quit Game.
New Game comes out, repeat.
I’ll admit I did that when I started but that WTF moment lasted about three matches. If you have any sense you will learn like two basic combos then give yourself a mental pat on the back when you actually remember to use them and properly execute them. All of this of course were things we as lovers of the game did naturally after practice, trial, and error.
The problem lies in the fact that there has yet to be a sophisticated and comprehensive tutorial in a fighting game that tells you to do just that. How long have cancels been a major mechanic in Street Fighter, yet how many times do you actually see that term used in the games? It’s like developers just assume we will go ardently scouring the net for references and carry on. That method has worked for those of us that stick around, but for the vast majority, they (devs) are almost asking too much. While I don’t personally care for the thought of FGs bending over backward to appeal to the average screaming COD brat (personally like things the way they are), it does seem rather illogical that indispensable core mechanics are never once given a nod during the actual course of gameplay even on the most modern titles. The fight lab in TTT2 is a step in the right direction but obviously does not prepare you to face even a mediocre opponent, let alone give you any real guidance on how to further develop your skills other than going and memorizing ten strings.
So right now I would say yeah, fighting games are not high on the casual appeal but it doesn’t bother me. Not a big fan of the industry standard braindead hand holding that most modern titles follow.
I don’t even know what to say anymore. Look at all the people debating my opinion. My opinion on this matter is? Who cares if it’s hard or not. Go play the game and get off the forums. I’m at work and can’t wait until lunch so I can play some games with the guys here.
That is because while the game has more extreme versions of the archetypes found on SF, the game still revolves around knowing how to apply the fundamentals to your strategy (Not saying that marvel doesn’t but due the over the top nature of the game, you can bypass some of the fundamentals with bullshit, lol).
Many people see the air dashes and think that the game doesn’t put much emhasis on the ground game because of it, which is very far from the truth, on GG if you don’t have a good ground game, you would have problems at high level play, this is because the anti airs on the game are really strong and can lead to good damage, so the emphasis on the spacing game is strong.