You could probably counter up and down at the same time. Left and right are already the same, and diagonals won’t counter.
Yes, please don’t let up on the e-mails to Capcom, guys. If any tournament organizers have their doubts, feel free to contact me directly.
On that topic, I’m still figuring out what to do in my own tournament scene. MvC3 is my favorite fighting game and the sole video game I play since its release. I understand the controversy level is high, but I feel I need to do everything I can to get the word out with the correct facts. I don’t think ducking out of tournaments and praying for a patch is the correct modus operandi.
Even after a patch, it may be too late.
My best idea on how to handle this is to talk to each tournament director openly with a NBC-style PSA sheet about the glitch. Petition the argument that fight board users are not the only ones capable of exploiting SOCD-vulnerable games, then hand that PSA to the organizer and any announcers if a stream is up.
I appreciate your ducking out of a tournament, Amp, but I feel that participating in tournaments is key right now. Not personally exploiting SOCD’s is the best demonstration of integrity. Anyone can exploit this; we’re not at an unfair advantage.
I would like to see video evidence or more description on how to perform SOCD’s on pad. If anyone can demonstrate, that would be a very helpful demonstration. It also would have more weight when presenting a patch to Capcom, since most gamers play on pad.
With the help of this thread we can make a neutral PSA about this glitch and what consequences come from it in MvC3 exclusively. Make it easily printable or have a download link. We can also update the first post of this thread to have a nice quick summary of SOCD’s and the relevant findings and what options are before tournament organizers and what consequences come from each.
We’ll worry about HDR after MvC3 is fixed.
Making the proper noise about this and participating is more effective than bowing out of tournaments. I would like to have something made by Wednesday, since I would like to participate in WNF without thousands of stream monsters crying ban out of misconception.
I would also like to move to call ABC’s “arcade panels.” That’s what I’ve always referred to them as, and I think it’s more fitting than a “board.” Any seconds?
Speaking of tournaments, yesterday I also went to a local tournament here and I almost got DQ’d for using a Hit Box. I had to explain to them how it was impossible on my specific model and there’s no way I could use it to cheat and they let me play. I almost told them that it was possible on any pad, but but my first match where I almost got banned myself was against a pad player, and there were a few other pad players there, and I didn’t want them to catch flack for it either since I know none of them were going to exploit it.
As for how to do it on a pad, I don’t have recording equipment, but to anyone who says it’s harder on pad than an ABC (Sorry Dustin, Arcade Panel doesn’t really describe what type of controller it is to me and the only way someone would know what you’re talking about is if they already knew what it was) is crazy.
Control Type A for face buttons
Tekken claw style on face buttons, right thumb on left analog, d-pad for 360
Assist 1 as L1/left bumper
Assist 2 as L2/left trigger
I don’t really play on controller, so I will drop even just the magic series a lot when playing on a pad, trying to exploit dummy block or not, but it’s really easy to have control over everything you want and still exploit the dummy block on pad.
That may well be for some. I strongly believe respect out weighs money when it comes to the fighting tourneys, maybe I’m wrong. Exploits are fine when everyone has access to them. Meaning can be done on pad, stick or ABC. ABCs are not the same as pads for access to these particular exploits. Your right hand never leaves the default position and still has full access to all buttons.
I got a chance to use a Hitbox at WCW and thought it was pretty cool. I definitely think it deserves to be in tourneys. There just needs to be awareness and possibly patches from developers.
Eh Stop trying to excuse it. Like i said earlier, i don’t know enough about the hit box to judge, but if stuff like Guile walking forward while STILL charging is indeed possible?
Then shine that shit! That IS cheating.
Its one thing for creative uses while working within the system, like charge buffering, however when you’re pulling off shit that should NEVER be possible like forward charging? Thats where ya gotta draw the line.
I believe he was referring to cheap tactics. The techniques a hitbox user can employ fall under these cheap tactics. They do not 100% break the game, but give an advantage to the one using such tactics.
For HDR, yeah, that is hella broken. But honestly, the bulk of the concern is on SSF4 and MvC3 right now.
The bulk of the concern is on MCV3 alone
SFIV has been developped for keyboard use and its developpers made it impervious to SOCD exploits.
Mad Catz calls them Fight Sticks.
Interesting test. I’ve heard a lot about hitboxes being cheap. I made one but it seemed pointless to put so much effort into making the switch.
FightSticks is to MadCatz what Fighting Stick/Real Arcade Pro is to Hori. It’s their branding.
“Hit Box” is a brand name, but “button box” is just too many syllables. The answer: “butt box”.
I don’t think the name FightStick is an actual copyrighted brand that MadCatz cares about defending, since the MK developers and the CEO of Razer have used that term to refer to their own existing or upcoming products.
Fight stick seems like it has successfully entered the vernacular.
I’m just trying to prevent Hit Box from entering the vernacular to describe something it isn’t. Hit Box refers to the layout specifically, and serves as a brand name for the controllers the Husser Brothers make.
Definitely. Taking a ‘moral stand’ by not participating does not help things at all.
An excellent suggestion. How quickly can you get something written up?
Ah… thank you.
I’d be willing to write a faq for tournament organizers. (I just spent the day dropping my combos going back to stick for a local MvC3 tourney. On the plus side, I still played arcana on board.)
Before that, I think we need :
- an easy to follow tutorial on how to logic gate a fightboard for those of us with a Socd capable pcb.
- An easy tutorial on how to do socd inputs with a normal te. (a mod with pictures would probably be best)
- Test results for a hori real arcade pro pcb, ps3 te pcb, and ps1-> converted to 360 pcb. (I still don’t know for sure which of these pcbs are socd capable or not)
I can record more Socd shenanigans on an xbox pad or hitbox, if that’d be helpful.
If people think a video psa rather than a guide would be more helpful, I can contribute editing, etc (I have a film school degree I’m not doing very much with right now)
After a conversation with a tournament organizer today, until a patch I only see 3 possible fair stances:
- This is marvel’s “Roll cancelling”, with very minimal mods, a majority of players do have acess to socds, and Marvel 2 was a game defined by glitches elevated to strategies.
- Don’t use socd “honor system”. Treat socd capability in any controller like a hardware macro, turbo, or a “blink” stick. The game is more fun and more interesting with charge times and crossups left intact. This isn’t by any means enforceable, but in small tournaments, where everyone knows everyone, it could work. If we assume socd is just temporary problem until a patch comes out, this could work. If it isn’t patched by evo, then I’m sure we all realize how much of a problem this stance would be.
- Have all tournaments run on setups with sticks provided by the venue. Personal controllers are not allowed. This is the only way to ensure people don’t have acess to Socd. This is not really fair to pad players, or hitbox players. Also, it might be very impractical.
As a developer myself, I find your comments really quite obnoxious. [good] Developers do not, and should not pay any heed to how their code performs with non standard hardware, it’s a waste of time and money.
I’m sure you would love to see a patch to ‘fix’ this issue but you’re not biased, right? Do you have any idea how much this would cost Capcom to patch this? More than likely into tens of thousands of dollars, not to mention the chance of introducing unwanted side-effects that would require yet another expensive fix to be submitted. I’m sure there’s all sorts of crazy side effects you could achieve in most games by using modified controllers but that matters not one jot. Developers would be crazy to try and handle all of them. If Capcom do resolve this issue I will be shocked, they’ll never see the money back on that investment, this isn’t their problem.
A quality seimitsu joystick is around 15$, 4 quality buttons goes about 8$. not that much of a saving if you ask me, but if it adds up with some other stuff…
I beg to disagree, there is only 2 ways this can go.
A - it is going to become the norm in MCV3
B - it is going to be patched out
Capcom patched their games to cut unblockables ultras out of the game in SFIV and that had a much shallower inpact on gameplay than the ability to charge moves regardless of movement or having a block all side ability.
We are not speaking about balance fixes or high level gameplay changes.
This is 5 lines in the input parsing routine, there is no possible side effect, and it is something you I and everyone was capable of coding when they were 10 years old.
Tackling this kind of details is the diffrence between programming and quality programming, I think capcom does quality programmers, and while everybody can be forgiven for overlooking something, blatantly claiming polishing a game is not cost efficient is unacceptable.
Just to be clear, are you saying pads are non-standard hardware? Because from what I’ve read in this thread so far, I think this exploit can be done using an analogue pad.
If so then Capcom screwed up, and it’s their responsibility to fix it. Given the modern age of the internet and the number of patches Capcom have released for their next gen games to date (both PC and console), this shouldn’t really be a problem.
It’s so impractical on a standard pad it becomes a complete non issue and in my experience, definitely not worth the expense/risk of patching. Imagine spending thousands of dollars on a patch, finding this patch introduced more anomalies further down the line that required yet another expensive patch, all for something so minor. Anyway, people were asking for patches before it was found this was possible on the standard pad.
The problem is that this cannot be considered a minor issue as now it’s entered the public domain people will be looking to exploit it. As or patches, it doesn’t need to be a stand alone fix but can be bundled with code to address the various glitches Desk has found to date in his vids.
I appears that all developper you are, you know/understand very little about competitive gaming.
When you intend to win “Inches matter. they matter a great deal”.
Competition means that something minor will snowball into the next best thing, champions will have to adopt it, people who refuse to use what works we have a nickname for them : “scrubs”.
AS said above, McV3 is bound to be patched if only for new content, including some fixes for SOCD vulnerability in the process only costs 2 hours wotrh of programmer’s worktime, issuiing a staement that is is working as intended only costs 2 hours of webdevelopper/seth killian.
Hurm…
Any chance of testing this out on KOF 2k2:UM and CvS2? Lower priority would be KOFXII, Battle Fantasia, Hokuto no Ken and Vampire Savior.