And why would you not be terrified in the corner against HDR Fei?
“Who the hell is going to jump into a chicken wing kick?”
Obviously someone who wants to get flame kicked for free everytime. Why would you even want to jump at Fei after that? The damage off of that combo alone is a good chunk of your life.
Fei still has a very strong pressure game in HDR, and now that CW uses a motion that is easier for you to do on reaction (SHORT CHICKEN WING) then why wouldn’t you use it?Short CW is a great tool to use in getting in on those fireballers, and if people are jumping in on you why aren’t you flame kicking them? Its pretty easy to do and generally works amazingly well against jump ins. You sound like you’re really bad at playing Fei.
Overall, Fei Long is better off the way he is now then he was in ST despite his “nerfs”. This can be argued all day, just like the entire topic of “ST vs Remix”.
So heres what a smart person would do.
If you like ST, go play ST. If you like HDR, go play HDR. You will find a bunch of players on both and plenty of competition keep you busy for a very long time.
Fei still has a problem getting in on projectiles characters or breaking a good defense. His CW’s are still vulnerable to sweep’s and a host of other pokes…basically his LK CW is only good at close range but it’s getting in close that is the problem. Not to mention with the reduction in block stun, his CW can be thrown or SPD more easily then before. Which kind of defeats the purpose of even getting in to begin with…
The whole point of CW was not necessarily to give Fei Long a solid number 1 option against shotos that garauntees he’ll get in. Does it give Fei long a “I get in on Ryu for Free” card, okay no it doesn’t.
But to say it’s completely worthless against zoning shotos… I don’t think so. it’s an option. Having options are never bad.
Well, I have yet to be CWed by a fei when I hado. Maybe its PSNs competition, or maybe fei sucks, but after seeing vids of ST fei, Im gona go out on a limb and say hes worse in HDR.
You couldn’t make a mistake against his CW, cuz it gave him great damage output/pressure. What now a mixup that if he flamekicks resets the situation?
I second the who jumps at fei, i rarely do cuz i dont feel like i ever need too.
Could you link me to that discussion? I’d be interested in reading it…
Actually it was a very good breakdown which clearly conveyed his point. VirtuaFighterFour was exaggerating when he said it helps “zero” to practice in training mode, but it really only helps a little bit. I think most people would agree from personal experience that we can all hit combos way more consistently in training mode than we can in a real match.
SimpleKiss completely understands this and I don’t see why some of you don’t.
It sounds like most of you whine because CW won’t get you in like you want it to, do you WANT it to go through fireballs or not? If your spacing is correct you should never EVER be getting swept out of it from a shoto, and where does this land you? Closer then you were before to your opposition.
Hell his super also goes through fireballs, and oh wait it actually has WAY more distance then it used to have. USE IT IF YOU HAVE TO, its one of the reasons its there.
What exactly is the whole purpose of Fei in this game? Doing all of his damage up close and personal. Of course you’re going to have problems getting in if you don’t know what you’re doing, that very thing applies to almost any character that has to get in to do damage.
Ryu1999 and Aquasnake you both sound like you don’t know how to play HDR Fei.
Is the tradeoff worth it? That is what it ultimately boils down. Gaining minimal positioning benefit vs. losing one of the major venues of damage. I know where I’d vote.
Also, I can guarantee you that I’m better at Fei than 99% of the people online
I would say it’s the opposite, or at least as a Chun player. In ST, I knew that I was screwed if a Hawk Dive knocked me down. Against R Hawk, I always try and hit it, because you can beat it clean, and the trade isn’t slanted that heavily towards Hawk.
Also, I think his DP will whiff her C.Mk from the point where he lands, meaning that Hawk can’t walk up and SPD me, and also can’t punish me for sticking out a move - in other words, there’s no mind game. So, I’m still not in any real danger if I get hit by it. I’m way, way not-scared of it now, whereas before, if a Hawk Dive hit me, there was a fair chance the round was over, so I never tried anything as rash as kicking it just for fun.
Fei Long in HDR has better Rekkas, He has a better super. His chicken wing is slightly worse, but can give an opportunity to punish a badly thrown fireball with CW and then Flame Kick Combo. Having a safe 1-2 punch of CW - Flame Kick as great because that gives amazing pressure.
How powerful was Balrog’s Safe headbutt? It was strong, and in HDR, it’s still mostly safe. Having safe moves that can cover distance and cause chip damage can be an effective tool for pressure.
Because there’s nothing scary coming from him in the air when I’m grounded. His jump isn’t that quick and his jump ins are just regular jumpins, they don’t have scary priority or good angles of attack. I used to fear chicken wing kick, which was his best aerial pressure.
That’s the exact question I just asked. No, not AFTER that, why would you jump at Fei Long at all? It’s hardly necessary.
Because the move sucks now, in comparison.
:looney: You sound like you’re really bad at reading. I asked why a knowledgeable opponent would jump at Fei. Chicken wing is no longer a scary move if you stay grounded.
No, no he’s not. You obviously did not play Fei Long in ST. You have NO WAY of doing damage/combos without cancelling from a close normal into rekkas. Sure rekkas have a lot of range but you just block them all day. You don’t try to stick out pokes in between them because that’s what gets you hit. To combo out of chicken wing kick it has to hit you in the air - so you don’t jump.
I would love to “go play ST” but HDR killed the scene. We had a good ST scene here, and HDR just killed it. It’s replaced the game in tourneys so people aren’t serious about playing it, and nobody round here wants to play HDR because everyone hates it.
When that option is one of his old options, given a big fat nerf so it can have an easier motion, having this option is definitely bad IMO. For LK CW to go through fireballs, you have to be in jump in range, and the fireballer has to be pretty brave or stupid to be lobbing fireballs predictably at that range. A lot of characters can win a round by jumping over a fireball at that range. If fei just regular jumps he can do something like j.hk, s.hp, rekka x3 for big damage. If he LK CWs, he gets 2, maybe 3 hits, not very much damage, and an awkward up-close stalemate. Do I flame kick or throw? Both of which can lose to something like dragon punch. Wow, that’s totally worth it. If the CW isn’t close enough to hit, they can very easily walk up and sweep you on reaction. It was much better to predict a fireball was coming in vanilla ST, bust out a huge arcing CW with HK, and bam do a fatty combo into rekkas or super for most their life. But instead we don’t get to combo after it unless your opponent is a moron who is jumping in on your chicken wing kick. Fei was turned into a scrub killer, when really he needed tools to play with the big boys.
Look, I understand you guys looking at the bright side of HDR fei, and yes he has some interesting tools, but the fact of the matter is his scary ass CW kick is what MADE him in ST. They completely revamped the move with no good reason (he was already low tier, fuck), when all he needed was the extended rekkas to be pushed up to a respectable tier level.
No, I do not. I want a move that I can still combo out of. I want to get a knockdown. Not this awkward stalemate/random hope-I-guess-right situation. I hate the idea of nerfing a characters offensive options just so he can get in easier on people with mediocre fireball games.
Wait, does it combo, or is it pressure? I’m pretty sure you can’t combo after it when it hits on the ground. It’s not a very safe move (flame kick) so I wouldn’t call it amazing pressure.
I’ve had my share of wins with Fei in HDR, but for the most part I’ve given him up. The fact that chicken wing kick has been changed so drastically is too much for me. It hardly does any damage on it’s own, and you can’t combo out of it. Unless the opponent jumped which IMO is a novice mistake. It’s not that he’s awful, yeah he still has meaty fierce, and good mixups off of his mk throw, nice rekkas… but the fact of the matter is his chicken wing kick was the perfect addition to this, the fear that ‘oh shit, if I get hit by one of these, the round could be over’. Dictator can get a free round off a j.hk, but I can’t get a half life combo off my chicken wing kick? Sure, now you can’t jump out of rekka pressure because you may eat a CW juggle, but like… I don’t know. sigh I just don’t understand what Sirlin was thinking sometimes. It’s okay to nerf someone’s ground game because if they psychic anti-air with random special move, they can juggle into another special move? Enough with the juggles sirlin, can we get something realistic?
Well against Chun, the old Dive was better because it was safe anyway. I don’t understand how people can say the Old Dive was better against people like Honda, Blanka, Dictator, and Boxer. I’m also pretty sure that if they block it, Fei Long can tag back with his new Rekka and Guile can do his Roundhouse Flash Kick. I can be argued to death with the first four that I mentioned on whether or not knock down Dive or no knock down Dive is better, but I truly believe that the Safe Dive is a better option in those fights. We all know It turned Dhalsim vs. T.Hawk completely upside down.
As a Blanka player I can say that the Hawk Dive in HDR scares the hell out of me. If you don’t knock him out of it on reaction, or guess with electricity, then its a slow push towards the corner and serious pain.
I don’t know how it’ll play out at the highest levels of play, but from where I’m sitting the new dive is a pretty effective way for Hawk to get in close against Blanka. Just my $0.02, thanks for listening.
blanka still rapes the dive with electricity s.strong s.forward and s.short or any properly timed/spaced jumping normals.
I never needed to turtle on back charge in ST to get the completely free damage. I mean I could so I did, but I never needed it. just plain stuffing it works. Same shit with sim in ST. Nevermind blocking and counter hitting just plain stuff it with hand of doom.
I’m pretty sure you can’t combo after it when it hits on the ground. It’s not a very safe move (flame kick) so I wouldn’t call it amazing pressure.