Thanks for the info. The main reason why I’m concerned is because I want all white buttons and I can’t find white 24mm OBSNs on focusattack.com.
As for the lag levels in a 32" monitor- I was glancing at this thread (Sub 1 frame HDTV/Monitor Input Lag Database) and it seemed to suggest there were a couple of 32" TVs with Evo-monitor like lag. Not sure how reliable those results are though so didn’t know if I’d be better off with the Samsung listed on displaylag or the monitors in the SRK thread.
Yeah you could definitely get by using obsf 24s in the start button holes, especially since they won’t get a lot of action. Worst case they loosen up after a year or so and kind of try to fall out when you flip the panel up, not a big deal.
On the TV side, probably best to keep that discussion under the input lag thread.
I finally picked a used one and have it setup with an Xbox - even with the panny LCD in game mode (which feels no different from standard mode, TBH) it still feels slower side by side with the Evo setup, unfortunately. I’m not sure there’s much more I can do to reduce it.
I’m using the Xbox DVI cables, as I’ve heard those are less laggy than HDMI. I don’t have an HDMI cable to set it though, so I am not positive.
Im going to call bullshit on that. Its not possible to detect 8-9ms input lag. You might have a different Panasonic LCD.
Just go with the Samsung, you wont notice the lag. Also Evo monitors aren’t exactly the best monitors. They are very washed out & if i could do it over again i would probably go with one with better picture/color.
Also its a good thing you didn’t order the coin door for Suzo Happs, i almost got raped with shipping for 3 coin doors for $50+. According to someone in this thread these coin doors fits Kray’s cab. http://www.ebay.com/itm/360127648947
Yep thanks. Ordered the Panasonic and the coin door from that guy. Suzo Happ needs to fix their shipping. I ship stuff all the time and there’s no way shipping a few coin doors and buttons costs more than $15 on average.
It’s the same TV. I looked at the back of the panel when I posted to verify. You have to remember you can’t look at the delta in pure numbers, but how they affect the gameplay. In other words, if the Asus is sitting at 10ms, adding 8-9ms to that will actually push you over the one frame delta. If say adding the delta still kept you under 16ms, then you probably couldn’t tell. Of course, going off that, anything from 16-32 will also exhibit similar lag. The gating factor here is the 60fps and not the pure numbers.
In reality it’s probably no more than a frame or so slower than the Asus. My litmus test is to see how long I have to wait after doing Yun’s Genei-jin before I can hit a button. I don’t know what to tell you other than that I have to wait ever so slightly longer on the TV than I do the monitor. It’s not a deal breaker, but situations that require you to use visual cues (such as the genei-jin example) “feel” different. It’s certainly subjective, but all I wanted to do was share my experience. As with everything on the internet, take with a grain of salt if you must.
Obviously, there are other things at play here, as well. Xbox vs PS3, HDMI vs VGA, TV vs Monitor… it’s not a straightforward apples to apples comparison.
Would you mind posting a pic of the back of the panel that show this is truly the Panasonic TC-L32X1…I find it strange that this was the most coveted 32" LCD for years, yet with your testing you’re finding noticeable lag.
What kind of paper do you guys recommend getting artwork printed on? I think I saw someone mention some sort of metallic inkjet paper. I know with previous mods, I used some sort of Fedex glossy cardstock paper.
EDIT: Also, does anyone have a good UMvC3 movelist template for the cabinet? I downloaded an AE one a few months ago in prep for the cabinet, but I’d much rather prefer a Marvel one.
EDIT2: Found a couple of MvC3 ones. I’d prefer a UMvC3 one though. I’ve heard a few people mention I should commission @d3v to do it. He still do things like that? I wouldn’t mind paying for a UMvC3 movelist if there isn’t one readily available. Here are the MvC3 ones I found earlier in the thread:
I’ll take your statement to mean that you haven’t actually played on this TV? I don’t want to derail this thread too much, but again I reiterate this is only my own experience. If you see Cicada’s original post detailing his test of the L32X1 vs a CRT, he mentions it’s on average about 10ms delay. He also says:
“8-10ms is about the threshold where sensitive people start to notice lag.”
So, take it for what it’s worth. All I’m saying is, my Xbox on the L32X1 feels slightly laggier than my PS3 and Asus setup. Again, not a deal breaker because in real play you can adjust your timing, and it’s not so bad that it’s unplayable compared to other 32" TVs. But in an absolute test against the Asus setup, I was able to tell. Logically speaking, it would make sense that if players can hit 1 frame links, they’d be able to tell when there’s one frame difference in lag.
Yeah i have not played on it but have been going on the word of mouth from numerous websites from here to the avsforums. I look forever for this LCD but now im pretty happy w/ the Samsung. Interesting how it turned out, have you tried xbox 360 VGA? With my LG, there was no noticeable lag, it was only when i used HDMI. You should try that see if there is any difference.
Yeah, I’m actually using the VGA output currently. I’ll be honest I played on the TV for about two weeks and it felt pretty good. It was only out of pure curiosity that I turned on both of my setups to try them side by side that I can tell. It’s that close. So in short, you really have to be looking for it, and even then you have to be sensitive enough to notice it.
I also did an experiment today by hooking up the PS3 to the TV via HDMI, and it was no bueno! I’m not sure what happened, perhaps I had some audio setting on that I shouldn’t have, but it was very noticeable between that and the Asus. If I had to hazard a guess, probably 2-3 frame difference. FWIW, I’m on a fat 60GB PS3.
In any case, I’m happy with the Xbox -> VGA -> Panny. It’s not perfect, but for the size it’s as good as you’ll get with LCDs.
Based on your description of the scenario, I would hazard that you probably need to enable some kind of game mode display for the TV. Most LCDs have different picture modes, and these modes will have varying amounts of processing time associated with them. There will be as mode that disables as much pre-output processing as possible. On Samsung TVs it is conveniently called “Game Mode”. Most TVs that have a VGA input use that minimal mode for the VGA input by default/forced.
Based on that, what you’re observing is that the TV is using the lowest pre-processing setting for your VGA port giving you your XBox’s pleasant display rate. Meanwhile, when you swap to the HDMI input from the PS3, the TV is using whatever default viewing mode and increasing latency due to the associated pre-processing. Scan your menus and try to find the one that implies the lowest latency (I couldn’t find anything online really easily, but best bests are something like “PC” or “GAME”) – On my Samsung you can force an input specific game mode by setting the input name to DVI-PC for instance.
Unfortunately there no native HD VGA support for the PS3. The PS3 console can utilize a PS1/PS2 SCART cable (that supports RGB) but that image will be at 240p and most US TVs don’t support SCART.
I wonder if Composite (set at HD resolutions) lag less than HDMI.
Unfortunately the Panny doesn’t have a true game mode. The game mode on that panel is just a pre-setting with some contrast/color adjustments, which is a bit of a let down. If you want to get really nit picky though, the PS3 does innately have 1 frame of lag vs Xbox, so I’m not surprised to see it feel slower.
FWIW, the XBox also allows me to output 1366x768 via VGA, which is potentially also bypassing additional scaling down by the TV. Whereas the PS3 can only output 720p, it’s probably losing another frame there as well.
No, what I am saying the PS3 Console does not support VGA.
Also not all HD TVs force low rez for PC video. My TV supports up to 1080i on VGA, I done it with my pre-Elite (Pre-HDMI model) Xbox 360.
