I highly belive half of your jokers run around in the steamforums.
Everytime someone wants to tell about SFIV “awesome” or “better” neutralgame,they come with either this or the Momochi Match from EVO 2015.
Thats fine they want to defend their point of view.
But in all seriousness, how the hell are 2 fucking matches are supposed to support you,if the majority just takes a big shit on them?
What about Sako vs Tokido? Where all you see is Kunais,Vortex and Plasma all over the place?
Or the early SFIV days that were nothing other than TIGER SHOOT,TIGER UPPERCUT,HADOKEN,SHORYUKEN!!!
What about AE? AE was basicly Divekick and Vortex Fighter IV.
How about the fucked risk/reward we had during SFIV?
Vanilla was a zoning festival
Super was probably the best version
AE was a Divekick festival
AE2012 was a Vortex festival
Ultra was a defensiv festival,that abused the problems of the system to it’s very limits.
To hell with that shit, you can’t use 2 videos to defend 8 years of utter trash and BS.
I’m out of here.
While earlier SF4 versions had problems, they shouldn’t set the bar for you.
A developer should try to improve a game (or series), he doesn’t start from scratch.
Nobody wants to see/endure another vortex clown fiesta, eh?
They did their mistakes (lots of them), but they should have learned a lesson or two from them,
what the community likes/hates. Engines changed, games changed, times change.
Lots of people didn’t even know vanilla, started with super and didn’t know shit until AE/2012, I guess.
If you are at 50%, you should try to get near to the 100%.
Adding 10% on the left but removing 10% from the right is not a help for that mission.
Some people just expected way more from SF5 and aren’t too happy, not buying the hype - I can understand some of it.
I don’t really like the game too much either due to various reasons, but well. (even though my hate is directed to technically related stuff and capcom in general)
Both sides have their points, but I do know that I didn’t get the hype for SFV I expected.
I think it’s unfortunate that SF4 was so quickly abandoned for the shiny new thing before it was proven. It should have stayed in the EVO lineup for another year minimum.
The past few major events I’ve only really watched top 16, the new game is just too boring to watch when the stakes aren’t high.
That recent tournament match between ISDD and Ryan heart was straight heat and ISDD’s Guile was an unmovable wall until Ryan started going full retard with Ken and took the set. Most of that whole match was Guile standing his ground in the corner using c.fp and flash kick to keep him out.
When people say this game has no defense or no zoning it sounds like they’re mad you can’t stun someone in 2 hits with a fireball like in ST.
That match between Valle and Daigo was nice but fuck I can’t stand watching people just shoot fireballs for a million year just to control the neutral for a little bit.
Then again maybe the shoto archetype isn’t for me.
That’s what SF is all about though. There are so many other games that are just non-stop offense. SF was the outlier in that regard and that’s what many people liked about it.
“Defense” is a fuzzy word since its not clear if you’re talking about defense in a neutral scenario or in a pressure scenario. Against pressure there were certainly options that could be considered too strong, like crouch teching, backdashes, and the much despised FADC DP. But I don’t think many would complain about the neutral game being too defensive (in fact people complained endlessly about characters like Yun and Fuerte who had ways of bypassing most space control tools.)
The reason Valle and Daigo are playing the plasma game here isn’t that offense wasn’t rewarding in SFIV, but that you had to be more careful about how you started your offense (well, most of the cast had to be careful about it). You can see that many of those rounds were still decided off of who managed to secure a knockdown or corner carry; the only difference between that and SFV is that SFIV’s neutral game tended to last longer due to better overall space control (not just fireballs but AAs and pokes, along with the walk speed to use them effectively). Again, there were some characters who could do whatever they pleased in neutral but I view that as a character problem rather than a systematic one.
I would be fine with pressure being as strong as it is in SFV if you had to play a more patient neutral game in order to start that pressure. But TBH Capcom may have screwed themselves by removing proximity normals, since it’s now a lot harder to buff a character’s neutral game without buffing their pressure game (and vice versa).
I dunno, just seems like every SF game, people get attached to the nuances of that specific game. I don’t like the nuances of SFIV. They’re just not interesting to me. You can find neutral game in other SF games without SFIV’s messy engine. Plus you had plenty of characters that were really strong and disrespected neutral in IV. Capcom Cup Finals pretty much showed that no matter how good you space E.Ryu, Yun is ready to come in and force you to commit to a lot of jumps and things that aren’t shoto like in order to win. SFIV isn’t really a great mark for block strings and pressure since that was the first game to start creating the low block stun and big reversal windows that people hate any way.
Like Cipher said, there’s plenty of really messy SFIV matches to post too. Like stuff that makes me glad that’s not the main SF game anymore.
Meta takes time to develop too. You can’t get what SFIV was in the last few years in the few months of a new game. Just not gonna happen. When they fix up the delay and do some balance changes (hopefully buff more than nerf) SFV will have its own nuances and things people appreciate. Won’t be the things that people appreciated in SF3, IV, Alpha 2 or ST, but that’s not surprising since they’re all different games.
Well Combofiend called Guile a “wall” so that’s probably the closest you’re going to get to that archetype. Unless they pull a UMVC3 and go “oh yeah we heard rushdown was too stupid so we’ll give you zoning characters and improve the zoning of other hybrid characters”. Except the best zoning characters were the ones that also had ridiculous rushdown.
SFIV was the opposite where they pushed to make offensive characters stronger in AE. Zoning was still alright, but not like it was in Vanilla/Super and there were already plenty of characters that could circumvent the zoning in Vanilla.
By that I guess I meant more of a traditional rekka character, some comboable command throws, dive kickers, air fireballers, a more plasma heavy character
Dive kicks are more or less banned from SFV. I highly expect Yang’s dive kicks if he makes it to be greatly nerfed and not the center of his gameplan. Cammy is the closest you’re going to get to a character that centers around dives.
I agree. The only reason I used SFIV as a reference point is that it’s the SF game I’ve spent the most time watching and playing by far (and I assume that goes for many others in this thread too.) What frustrates me is that if you bring up even one aspect of 4 that you like better than 5, people start ranting about unblockables, vortex, crouch teching, etc. as if these were the ONLY mechanics that distinguished SF4 from SF5. While in reality many of us enjoyed SF4 despite all that garbage, and not because of it.
