Funny thing is though, SF5 IS about set ups a lot of the time. It’s the only way you can guarantee block stun and continued pressure. That’s what I don’t get about the SF4 vs SF5 canned set up arguments. It’s almost MORE essential that you’ve got a bullet proof meaty set up in SF5 because the game designers deliberately made it easy to fuck up a meaty by one frame and eat a wake up button.
I don’t care what SF was always supposed to be about, but oki made SF4 that much more exciting. When you get knocked down, the pressure is on. In your brain you think “ok, this is bad for me, I have to be really careful and make the right decision here”. It made the battle for momentum with your opponent that much more important, as you sought to ride it all the way to the end of their lifebar , or carefully planned your wake up decisions as you try desperately to get some back. SFVs universal quick rising, along with its SFxT backrolls, forces matches to almost always be stuck in neutral, which in my opinion only detracts from the over all excitement factor of the game.
Now, unblockables nobody will defend, and that’s a different issue entirely. The way I see it: Capcom’s logic is that they REALLY wanted to avoid shenanigans like unblockables, and their solution was just doing away with hard knockdowns altogether, which in my mind is like burning down the orchard to get rid of your pest problem.
This made absolutely squat sense. “V is about setups, because it’s the only way to guarantee block stun and pressure” - if it’s the only fucking way, then it’s not about setups, is it?!!! Meanwhile in IV just about every knockdown lead to a setup - just watch some Cammy or Akuma, but here you are claiming the complete opposite like some demented hobo.
Every character had more ways past fireballs in IV in addition to FADCs.
I feel like I’m talking to a mushroom.
I’m out of this discussion - bye, bye.
Alpha 2 was also a very neutral heavy game with neutral resets after most everything. Gief SPDs you then gets thrown half way across the screen and has to tread back in. 3rd Strike let you tech almost everything other than supers as well.
I don’t mind neutral resets as you just get back up and continue fighting. You’re both able to get up and continue fighting after a tech quicker than a one sided oki situation any way. I understand liking guaranteed oki reward after knockdowns, but SF can usually stay pretty active without it.
This is what makes me raise eyebrows at the majority of the posts in this thread. SFV has issues even I don’t like but the complaints are way off base. A bunch of people that seemingly never played or followed anything else outside of SF4 talking about what happened in other games prior or what “SF is supposed to be”. Comments like the one below kinda baffle me.
I can introduce you to 3s and A3 players on Fightcade (and even SF4 players btw) that can do the exact same thing. I myself have never spent a day in my life in training mode doing anything other than practising Urien Tackle-Tackle-Headbutt and a couple awkward V-ism combos yet play more than half the cast in either game comfortably at a competitive level and both those games are harder to play even at a fundamental level than easy mode modern SF games like SF4 and SFV. It’s a natural progression for anyone decent at any fighter to be able to understand what even foreign characters want to do and how to play them after enough time. Acting like SFV is somehow worse off or supposed to be different in that regard is laughable.
And as someone that has multiple super/platinum CFN accounts myself, I can tell you with few exceptions the online warrior platinum level largely isn’t exactly top 8 at major material anyway. You’re supposed to be able to play 5-6 characters at that level if you’re half decent and are actually learning the game as opposed to grinding points. I play that many and I’m not a strong player in SFV at all.
Sorry I can’t even understand what you are typing. You seem to be confusing standard pressure with mix ups.
This. I hated sf4.
Your’e talking to a guy who thinks that fireballs are better in V than IV. Dude is immune to logic.
He’s just gonna continue ticking “WTF” and “LOL” on any post that is vaguely critical of SFV. There is no reasoning with fanboys.
I think that guy’s inputs have been ridiculous, and you agreeing with him as if teaming up against me, just makes it kind of pathetic.
This thread is pretty much for people to vent about their frustration with the game. So of course you are going to face resistance when you drop in to tell us that our frustrations our misguided and that SFV is the bee’s knees (while also making claims like “fireballs are great in this game” which are obviously false to anybody who has even watched a tournament.)
You’re of course welcome to disagree with any of us but when you defend SFV in a thread dedicated to criticizing it you should be prepared to be in the minority.
Yes, this thread was for people discussing their criticisms of SFV but as I’ve read many of the posts in my curiosity of what criticisms people could have I’ve seen how moronic 99% of them were, and that’s when I started posting here.
If you insist on IV having better fireballs than V then that’s your right like free speech or gay-pride parade.
Good bye.
eh, honestly man, when you try to make this argument it becomes hard to take much of what you say seriously. i could make the exact same hyperbole and say that anyone in v will either use a v-skill or special to dodge the fireball. even more so since fadc lost to ex fireballs, and on top, fadc itself was a great tool for zoners to get pressure from zoning through fadc fireball.
with that said, even though focus is out, fireballs are generally easier to avoid for most chars in sfv than they were in sf4. add to this that fireballs aren’t good for keeping people out after blockstrings, such as classic ryu cr.mk, and they’re even punishable.
by zoning i mean either diverse and specialized keep-away normals (such as cody st.hk in sf4, or bison st.mk) or good fireball game that has potential counterplay for any of the opponent’s approaches as long as it’s read (i.e. in sf4, you could throw a fireball even if the enemy Cammy had ultra meter if you fadc’d it instantly, and if you predicted her reaction correctly you could punish the blocked ultra attempt,) while also putting pressure on your opponent if you are at a long distance/gradually giving the ‘zoner’ an advantage at fullscreen.
in sfv, the first one is non-existent. the second point is also a non-factor. the last part is heavily match-up dependent whether or not the zoner will get an advantage. vs say nash or bison, it’s arguable whether the meter built by your fireballs is much better than the v-meter built by their v-skill, for instance.
as for you enjoying it, that’s good. sure, i’ll agree it’s balanced, but i don’t agree it’s more fair as i find it a lot more random and yolo. personally i think there’s inherently way more guesswork/“yomi” involved in sfv than in 4 because it’s so focused on committed reads instead of reactionary play.
ZZZZzzzz… Good night.
I don’t know what game do you play, but fireballs are good in V, you just can’t sit fullscreen chucking plasma hoping to have a good time.
A lot of them are slow enough for you to follow them and create mixups, you can (or rather should) use them as long range pokes, and with the right spacing you can punish any attempt of your opponent to jump/pass through them.
Just watch a random match of isdd and count the booms he shoots in just one round
That honestly sounds extremely depressing…
There’s no doubt that fireballs are useful in SFV. But there’s no way in hell that they are MORE useful than they were in SFIV, which is what NG1313 was arguing.
I mean there are exceptions on a character by character basis (SFV Nash’s fireball blows SFIV Dan’s fireball out of the water for instance =) ) but IN GENERAL the game is less friendly to fireballs than SFIV was.
It doesn’t really matter if fireballs are better in IV, 3s, or ST. You can’t pick a single aspect of the game and compare it to other games without a context.
Following your logic, fireballs in IV are shit because they are nothing compared to ST akuma
Which part? Because it wasn’t exactly hard to pick up characters in SF2. That’s one of the few this game got right.
It’s just a very basic game, there’s very rarely scenarios thrown up where you do something really smart or clutch. If you played SF4 you might know the feeling of using a kara uppercut to go through a fireball for the win or recognising an opponents tech pattern and blowing them up hard with a great frame trap or keeping someone in block stun with a great pressure string or loop or how about a juggle into another juggle.
None of that is present in 5, it’s just different variations of the same grounded thing or a side switching reset, although again the input lag has a massive effect on that. Ryu for example has some great fireball juggles in this game, but the chances of you seeing them are slim to none.
I don’t hate the game, but I’m not in love with it. To give you another example I used to watch a lot of matches in SF4 to see how all the different tools interacted with different characters, but in SF5 I really don’t need to, I know with about 90% certainty how the match is going to run before I’ve even switched it on.
I’m dropping the game, can’t stand it anymore. They banned me for 2 hours after i quit 5 times in the VS screen against a Mika player from another country in a server match. So i’m FORCED to play in the lag because their matchmaking sucks and some retard had the idea to put FIGHTING GAME MATCHES BY SERVER?
I’ll come back if they reduce the input delay by 2f next year.