Goal to be made or a goal to keep playing?
SF4 had less characters than SF3: 3rd Strike and SFA3.
KoF12 had less characters than KoF whichever came out before it
There are circumstances to whether the roster will grow or shrink. This game is within the circumstances of a shrinking roster in my opinion.
Literary theory is hardly monolithic. The various theoretical filters (freudian, marxist, liberal humanist, existentialist, deconstructionist, etc.) do not agree about much of anything. You can’t really make blanket statements like you’re making. Literary theory is too complicated and varied for that.
Also, what people are meaning to suggest, even though they aren’t articulating it very well, is that there’s a distinction to be made between High Art and entertainment. Yes, both are art, speaking broadly. But let’s not let semantics get in the way of obvious meaning.
I interpreted Anemone as saying we expect games to have design and function, not that they necessarily have to have those attributes. I disagree. Games are designed parameters in which one or more people interact with to achieve a particular function(s), usually leading to “winning the game.” They need form and function to be considered games.
I could’ve just misinterpreted Anemone, which is completely possible. I’m hoping for clarification.
When I saw him showing the part of Dormammu’s ending, about the lord Rapter thing, The first thing that came to mind was Rapter Jesus.
Kind of unrelated, but hey, wanted to share my thoughts on the subject.
Why is everyone so obsessed with story in video games? It’s one of the most nonsensical complaints in recent memory. Story is a great accent to a game. In can be a very important element in games such as Mass Effect 2, but in a game like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 it is borderline retarded to complain about the lack of story.
Video games are, and always will be about the game play first (Ya know, hence the term GAMEplay in video GAMEs). Everything else is secondary. Does the lack of story change how the game plays? Does the story change how the game sounds? Does the story change how the game looks? No, no, and no.
If you’re looking to a versus fighting game to get some story about the Marvel or Capcom universe, you’ve come to the wrong place.
Again, the issue isn’t that people were expecting an engaging story in a fighting game. It’s that story was part of the game’s marketing. When a company markets something, and then does not deliver on it… I don’t see why complaining about it is out of line.
It’s like ordering a banana split then raising hell because “WTF NO CHEERY ON TOP?!” It’s a small aspect of the overall package.
Who cares if they said it would be the best story since Citizen Kane. It doesn’t change the rest of the game. It’s called perspective. Gain some.
Anemone, I think you misunderstood many points here.
I never mentioned the relative aspect of an artist intention, see, an entertainment product never had its concept and background idea even created as Art. If you understand the review and all the arguments related to this review you will notice that in truth Marvel vs Capcom 3 is also not consumed as Art, this is why there are some functional and pure entertainment related features people are missing.
There is a technical and realistic reviewer talking about how this game feels incomplete without more multiplayer modes, there are players (PLAYERS) missing this features too and there is you screaming games are ART, so if I can interpret and understand the work of Hieronymus Bosch I will do the same with the incomplete features of Marvel vs Capcom 3…do you really believe your arguments are realistic and not just a very, very personal point of view that just doesn’t fit outside “your” world?
Artist intention, public interpretation and how the piece of Art is related to its time and artistic movement are Totally different discussions and not related to the clear boundaries between entertainment productions and fine art. Sure, a single person can by an Egon Schiele’s painting and use as entertainment and someone like you can buy an industrialized and functional object and firmly believe it is a piece of Art, but we can’t have a serious discussion about fine art and intentions this way and be productive.
Yes, just like Wagner with “Der ring des nibelungen”, the work of Shakespeare, from Titus Andronicus to Macbeth and the popular work of Victor Hugo needed to also entertain beside express human values, emotions and many details related to the philosophy behind artistic movements from their time.
The fact that a piece of Art also need to generate revenue, entertain and at the same time express many ideas doesn’t make it a pure entertainment production. The difference between them is not just my opinion, you can inform yourself about it.
Are you serious? Don’t you realize you came very arrogant and used a link that just destroyed part of your own argument?
Anemone, I said clearly that anyone can find artistic details and aesthetic sensibility in some games.
From the link you posted. “The Art of Video Games exhibition will explore the 40-year evolution of video games as an artistic medium, with a focus on striking visual effects, the creative use of new technologies, and the most influential artists and designers. We want you to help us select the eighty video games that will be represented in the exhibition. Remember, this is an art exhibition, so be sure to vote for games that you think are visually spectacular or boast innovative design!”
I believe you noticed this exibition is related to details withing games, especially innovative concepts and visual art (something even I said you can find in games), this single exhibition is not exactly taking every videogame as a piece of Art.
The way you can vote and the patterns used are in truth, a counter argument to everything you said till now. The separation between artistic details in a game and a game as a piece of fine art is clear.
Even your arguments related to movies and reviews are out of reality, many times mainstream movies are reviewed as entertainment productions. You will often find comparative reviews about effects and productions, comparative reviews about pacing and the entertainment value of movies, because mainstream cinema is produced and consumed primary as entertainment, it is not a discussion about intention because not only the intentions, but the reception are the same.
Anyway, I do agree with “Schmutzig” post but I am not sure if this subject can be really explored here in these forums.
I agree with him, except when he said that SSF4 had a story… LMAO.
He is right about the online play though. Its not very good. At all.
Agreed. I know it’s not a huge deal, but the menus are so terrible it’s insane. Shit looks like billboard cutouts placed in front of a random background.
In case you were still wondering Gargantua, your English is perfect. Welcome to SRK.
Anyhow, I think that immersion is a massively powerful tool that videogames can use, and turns fun single-player adventure games like Pikmin into great memorable experiences like Bioshock. Could this be utilized in fighting games? Without a doubt in my mind yes. I hate to use this as an example because it fails at achieving immersion, but games in the Dragonball series at least make attempts to engage the player in the storyline. All it will take is some ingenuity and several millions of dollars extra towards development ; )
Would this have been feasible in MvC3? Probably not, unless you could only do campaigns with set teams for the sake of continuity and reason. Regardless, some attempt at a story was advertised, and it would have been appreciated to have seen more effort put into it.
Fighting games aren’t forced to be solely focused on producing quality multiplayer experiences. I think we are selling ourselves short if don’t show a demand for expanding on all facets of fighting games. More so, if we make the non-competitive aspects of the genre more appealing, its survival is pretty much assured in my mind. This is isn’t catering to casuals, it’s just putting out more to enjoy at the sacrifice of nothing. A pretty idealistic notion obviously.
In short, I like fighting with Captain America and all, but dammit I want to root for him and cry manly tears when he spares Iron Man in his final battle a la Civil War. 'Dis shit could be epic.
Man you just love being wrong don’t you.
It is more comparable to this. “We are putting a nice delicious cherry on top, with nice syrup. In fact, this will be the tastiest syrup of all sundaes.”
“Wtf, no cherry, no syrup, only good part of this is the ice cream itself.”
Nah, I just enjoy educating folks like yourself who get a sandy vagina over the lack of a story.
BTW: You really got shafted on banana splits if all you got was ice cream, some syrup, and a cherry. Here’s a what a real banana split consists of.
Thanks for trying with the analogy though. Sadly you’re terrible at it.
Though you know what, go out and get yourself a banana split. Might help pick up your spirits after they were crushed by the terrible crime Capcom committed against video game narratives and humanity. Keep your head up buddy.
Dude, don’t bother. These people will not listen to any views that are not exactly what they think. Even Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe, easily pulled up a story, but this thread is about people who have already decided that this is the best game ever. Honestly, when they said they added story, THAT is what I expected, you know an extra mode and all… I would love to play through the stories of these characters.
When it comes down to it, while everyone else enjoys Mass Effect 3 and Uncharted 3, and those are contending for all the GOTY awards in January, these people will still be complaining that no one nominated the slightly above average fighting game.
Um… it was your analogy to begin with 
Sorry for having the audacity to call someone out when they bullshit us. I guess it’s really out of line to expect to get something when one is told you’re getting it. My apologies Capcom, please keep giving us piss poor netcode and half assed features. 
At least for me, don’t get me wrong, I love the game. IMO the gameplay itself is toptier for 2kX fighters ( so far ). But I don’t see why a company should be able to bullshit people and get let off with a “oh, only the gameplay matters guys”. It’s not the fucking 90s anymore.
Lmao, not only did you fail to prove the analogy wrong, you nitpicked the actual flavor. Lmao, I’m done, trying to convince you that this game just isn’t as good as it could have been is impossible.
I’m saving this post btw, cause your terrible at debating.
Wow, you’re a perceptive one. Nothing gets past you. He tried to use my same analogy but left out key components making it an utter failure.
Yes, Capcom did not come through with an amazing story. It’s a bare bones story that does little to connect anything in the game. They did not live up to their word.
Now that I’ve admitted this grievous trespass of the depraved developers Capcom, I ask you, what difference does it make? Does it change how the game plays? Does it change how the game looks? Does it change how the game sounds? It would have been great to experience some intricately weaved story implemented into the game, but there’s not. My response, “Meh”. It’s a damn fighting game.
But please, keep whining over menial issues. This whole circle jerk/bitch fest is an intriguing combination.
So tell me, would you rather have an amazing story with sub par gameplay? That would be awesome right?You yourself stated you think the game is top tier as far as fighters are concerned, but yet you continue to whine, moan, complain, and pout over these little details.
That one went right over your head. It’s called irony my slow witted friend.
But don’t let that discourage you. You’ll make it one of these days. I have faith in you.
No, I expect both. I’m not sure why it’s so absurd to expect decent features or netcode, especially when Capcom promises them. The latter is almost a necessity in this modern environment… and I certainly don’t see how enabling Capcom by waving off their mistakes helps anyone.
WTF? Gameplay was there top priorty. If they talk up story and such, saying that this was two separate modes for it, hyping it up and such, but then there is none, you would tend to be disappointed.
Just becuase this is SRK, does not mean we don’t know how to have fun. The ultimate dream match AND a story to boot? You can expect that people would be disappointed, Capcom should have never hyped it up. It came back and but them in the ass. But this review should not affect you at all, why do you care so much? He is a reviewer, other components of the game are supposed to matter to him, he is reviewing it for the casual player. You want a pro’s opinion of the game? Ask keits for a review or something.
And being disappointed is not whining and moaning.
Does anyone remember the slave analogy I used in the The only problem is you thread? It applies here.
I’d have to agree with you. I think, for a fighter, it is very well done, since many are boring to me. I got this because it had characters I am interested in, supposedly had a story, and was the sequel to an arcade game I played during my teenage years. But I’m not going to give them a pass for a game where they only included 2 modes and did not even come through with what they said they would. By the summer, if they don’t patch in new content, I’ll be bored of the game and looking for something new. I enjoy this game, but its as shallow as a puddle.