Why are you acting like an arrogant prick? When i said better position, i meant actual position on the screen. The whole point was the reset after Cerebella’s BnB into j.LP. Cerebella’s combo already have great corner carry and DD into qcf+PP will pretty much leave you in the same position that you started the combo with, so if you started the combo iwith your back to the corner, there is no reason not to go for it, but if you started midscreen then you have probably brought them close to or in the corner so you might not want to leave them in a situation where they are back to midscreen and have the ability to tech out, which Showstopper gives you.
So yes, Showstopper does leave you in a better position except one instance where you yourself are in the corner. Everything else you said i brought up in my post. All i did was present the facts about which option gives you and let the player decide what option they want to go for, since one player might want the safety of DD, but another might want the corner carry + setup of Showstopper (like if the use assists to setup on wakeup). Whereas you are just trying to force one option down people’s throats because it works for you.
… I always act like an arrogant prick. That is not a joke. If it’s any consolation, I don’t think any less of you than anyone else who has ever existed.
It is not really opinion. Fact is, you can get 2-3k more damage from Diamond Dynamo without throwing in a reset. And since this game is reset heavy, those are always the best options. That’s how the game is designed. Combo, DD into DD reset, follow up combo, reset combo, dead character from full health (1v1). Of course, you could waste your super bars like you’ve been, hoping the opponent has no sense and won’t be holding up.
Edit: Also, on the topic of “Positioning” (as the word position could mean either what you meant, as in spacing, or what I meant, as in having dealt more damage), we have no idea what bnb my good sir was using. He said it was a simple rest, and to me it sounds like he was doing it at the beginning of combos (standard launch combo, j.lp, reset). So, if he’s doing a long ol combo, yeah, DD leaves him at the same place he was (but on the other side), but we don’t know that.
On top of that, there are better “Positioning” tools that can be used, ones that push further into the corner, don’t risk super meter, and can be followed up quickly for pressure. First thing that comes to mind is s+f.hp. They get sent reeling, and you can quickly follow after them and be in their face when they stand. Unlike Showstopper, which has huge risks and lets your opponent stand at roughly the same time as you can move.
Edit2: I decided to put you in quotes. You also are pretty open for argument (as in you contradict yourself and say a few things that don’t make sense), but I’m not sure if this is the place for that. Let me know if that’s not the case.
thats one i use a lot as well, you can either go for grab bag, a throw, a low, command throw, or if you hit the LP 4 times then chain a HP it hits very close to the ground and gets people who might be trying to crouch guarding.
sounds like me lol! thats my primary means of reset atm ha ha. we should try some more games soon.
edit : i dont know why i didnt think of this sooner, but sometimes i end up triggering IPS when i go for the low f i did it too fast, i may try using it to bait bursts into battering ram> combo…
You only get that damage if you bring them to the corner, which we’ve already established that only happens if you start your combo from you yourself in the corner, so it’s situational damage. If you start considering the options you get from teching out of qcf+PP, then you have to consider the options you get from Showstopper also.
Here are the facts after that reset:
Showstopper -
Sends them in front of you (after a forward moving combo)
Untechable
4800 dmg
Doesn’t take away any red life
Easier to punish if whiffed
DD into qcf+PP -
Sends them behind you (after a forward moving combo)
OTG knockdown (follow ups in the corner only for the most part)
4300~ dmg
Takes about half red life
Recovers quickly on whiff, not so telegraphed
Don’t use up a super bar if it fails
That’s it, without post options or any sort of bias. You are then free to decide what option is best. I like how you just assume i just use Showstopper. Unlike you, i don’t limit myself to just one option and would use both depending on certain situations. In fact, if i was really close to the corner i would rather go for dp+LP+LK OS into Showstopper. Covers the two options of escape from each move and leads to big payout if i hit either one. Too bad it’s getting patched out, but until then it’s a good option.
do you mean IN the corner or just close to it? im scared to do DPxx showstopper in the corner now since ive been thrown out of the DP a couple times now when attempting it. perhaps i didnt do it fast enough i dont know. midscreen though i wouldnt worry about it too much unless it was bella mirror obviously.
i will occasionally mash one out if the opp is getting too crazy, just to remind them that i can still do it if i feel like it lol. not often enough that it becomes predictable though.
oh and when a peacock player foolishly does throw > AA in the corner. those are satisfying to land ha ha.
You can get an additional 2k damage by dashing after the DD super into a combo. I know it may be hard to visualize, so I’l give you a short combo. qcf lp+lk, qcf pp, dash, c.lk, c.mp, c.hp, j.jp (mash), c.lp, c.mk. That’s probably about 2-3k damage (can’t test it at the moment). Then, with resets I’ve given in this thread, you could do something that looks like j.hk, c.mp, c.hp, j.lk, j.hk, c.lk, c.mk, Grab bag reset. I don’t know the exact damage, but that is a dead character, including the least damaging chain into those j.lp you can imagine.
Correct. I’ve explained how that’s all inferior to DD into DD. The untechable knockdown does not matter, at all, because you cannot move until (roughly) the time they can. Now, say you did j.lp (mash), s.lp, s.mp, s+f.hp? You get basically the same thing you want to do (the only real reason anyone would do that over DD to DD is for the corner carry, as everything else is entirely too dangerous, with less reward), only now you can dash jump and be right on top of them when they get up from their… staggering knockdown? I don’t know what to call it.
Forward moving combo is very generic. Like I’ve said, unless we know his combo, we don’t know the situation he is in. And even still, the merits of DD to DD is superior. Pushing someone away from you is not what you want to do as Bella: you want to stay in their face. OTG knockdown, with followups anywhere on the screen. A lot better than the “Position” that you’re left in, combo wise and pressure wise, on Showstopper. It does 4300~ damage, before the combo you can follow it up with anywhere on the screen.
Everything else was correct.
Post options are the most important part of any tactics and strategy based game (fyi, that’s what FG’s are). What you do decides the options available. I like how you just assume I limit myself to DD. I was simply explaining benefits of not doing nothing nonsensical in order to prevent avoiding worse Cerebella play.
Anyway, why don’t we have some games? I always enjoy fighting other Bella’s. Don’t pick Pink Bella, I’ll hold a grudge (Evilweevile, you bastard!).
Oh, yeah. I’ve forgot to bring it up before, but dp grab into showstopper is not as safe as it looks. If your opponent knows you will do it, they can just super (or grab, or tag out) and beat you, since the start up of Excellabella is not in anyway protected on start up.
No, it wasn’t you. I fought someone else (Mega Ran X, I think) and he thought me the hard way to jump if Bella does j.lp mash. And I pretty much jump against everything she does now. But, yeah, I’d like some more games as well. Hopefully the connection will be better.
Pretty sure that’s character specific and hard as balls without them being able to tech. When people start doing it consistently then you could argue it.
You don’t get it do you? Stop living in your own world where you think that what you do is the best and only option. It’s not superior or inferior, it’s completely up to the player themselves to determine if certain factors work better for them or not. For example, an untechable knockdown might not mean much to you, but to someone with lockdown assist + corner advantage might be more beneficial to them and their style where they know exactly where the opponent is gonna be and can cover their options better. That’s why you present the facts with no bias so players can incorporate their own strategies based on the options presented to them.
Also, if you actually do a combo that uses your OTG, then f.HP becomes techable. If you did f.HP setup, you just get combo damage + untech, with SS you get combo damage + 4800 + untech, only it’s a reset so it’s not guaranteed unlike straight f.HP, but that’s the nature of resets.
If you do a decent combo with cerebella, then it’s going to move you forward. Before you were talking about the mindgames you could do from tech after Dynamo and now you bring up you can just combo after it anyway? Why bring up tech options in the first place? Like i said, show me someone who can consistently get a full combo midscreen after Dynamo against most of the cast and maybe you have a point; i don’t like impractical theory. Until then, most of the time people are going to tech after Dynamo, so that’s what should be assumed.
Yes post options are important, however because of the myriad of things you can do in this game with assist choices and character styles it’s impossible to just list the options straight up.
For example, with Cerebella if i do reset, many times i’ll go into DD xx qcf+PP, but that’s only because i have a option select against left and right tech with Parasoul assist. It’s great for me since it’s my team, but it might not be a good option for someone else. This is why leaving it open to interpretation is good and why just saying one option is better over another is bad.
I think there is good reason to assume you just use DD. Some quotes from you:
“There is no sensible reason to use Showstopper over Diamond Dynamo”
“Don’t do Showstopper; just use Diamond Dynamo…”
If you’re EU then sure.
"If your opponent knows you will do it"
Really? No fucking shit. Guess what, if your opponent knows you are going to DD, they can super as well (or jump, or tag out, or IAD, or reversal) does that mean it’s a bad option? No it doesn’t. If i knew what my opponent was doing all the time, i’d win at every fighting game. It’s good that they are able to beat out that strat, because it would be completely broken if they couldn’t. Such a pointless thing to point out.
Maybe. But the fact is that it can be done. Aren’t we presenting facts? It’s an opinion that it’s “hard as balls”.
Why are you so hostile? What have I done to offend you?
Anyway, yeah, it is kinda superior. Anything that can be done from showstopper can be done from DD to DD. Any pressure options you have will not only work the same way, but more efficiently, same with s+f.hp. Showstopper takes a risk for no reason. If the player’s skill is above a certain level, it will almost never work. If it never works, then you’ve wasted a meter and eat a full combo. That is too big a risk for anyone to take repeatedly. Like Age of Fools said, it should only be used for counter situations.
I gave an example of a combo without an OTG. It’s fairly easy. You have j.lp and j.mp into j.hk (since j.mk follow up will be removed via patch) for non-OTG combos. Showstopper isn’t just a reset, it wastes a full bar of meter and if avoided, means a full combo. You have to assume they won’t be holding up in order to not be dangerously hurt by it. That’s the point I’m arguing. It is safer, does basically the same damage, won’t waste meter, and is smarter to, from mashing j.lp, do DD to DD. Positioning is important, but not that important where you have to risk everything on the hope that they don’t hold up, especially when Cerebella has such dangerous midscreen resets that keep you in combos.
Your opinions of decent combos aside, you remember that this game is reset heavy? Part of that is crossing up on the other side. Found some awesome stuff today, but I’ve already shown the j.hk after c.mk you can do.
If you CAN’T do the dash to c.lk, then you can catch them if they tech forward with MGR. If they start teching backwards, you know you have the right of way to dash jump in. For only 500 less damage, the follow up pressure options are better.
Why are discussing anything anywhere, then? No one is right on the internet. We all give our opinions, and then everyone else takes those opinions and makes of them what they will. I’m not forcing anyone to use anything, or telling them how to play their game. They can honestly do whatever they want. When the game gets a little older and people are tired of wasting their meter and getting kicked in their faces, maybe they’ll remember what I’ve said. I’ll, meanwhile, be busy smashing faces.
You’ve been saying this whole time that Showstopper is the better option because the “Positioning” is better. Do you not realize that?
Is it a good idea to piss on an electric fence? No. Does that mean I’ve pissed on an electric fence? Once or twice. Just because I know something to be true, that doesn’t mean that it’s all I know.
Aww shucks. That’s too bad.
There’s a difference between being an arrogant prick if that’s just the way you talk, because you truly don’t mean to offend someone, and being an active asshole, intentionally being an asshole or being assholish. Kinda like the difference between DD and SS.
Anyway, I wasn’t talking to you. That was just a general post because Evilweevle mentioned he got grabbed out of the dp grab. Apparently, not everyone knew of the vulnerability of that OS initially. In case anyone left didn’t know, I thought I’d point it out plainly. I’m trying to help out my Bella community every way I can. By “If your opponent knows you will do it”, I meant don’t use it repeatedly because it isn’t invincible. Even though it will catch them regardless of what they do, it can be hit out of. Not everyone can get that on their own; they think “It can’t be blocked, so it’ll work every time regardless!” If I said to myself “NO FUCKING SHIT!” every time someone said something or didn’t know something I thought was obvious, I’d be… well, an asshole. Can you imagine how fucking dickish I would have sounded had I said that to the guy who thought Grab Bag couldn’t be teched?
Clearly nothing is getting through to you, there is no point talking to you anymore. I’ll just say that i never once said Showstopper was better than DD, all i did was point out what showstopper did compared to DD. Read the posts again.
<___<
Damn, you dudes need to chill… we’re all trying to help out each other here and share tech so all Bellas can level up. No need for the hostility and drama…
Don’t blame sticky. Everywhere I go, there’s someone like him/her I accidentally rub the wrong way. It’s as natural as resets in this game. Which are awesome. Which reminds me, the two resets I found earlier. I want to make a video showcasing all of the cool things you can do from c.mk, so would you guys rather I explain it now or put it in the video first?
oh lol id forgoteen about that ha ha, yea sorry i knew you liked pink bella i just couldnt resist at the time ha ha. i think ive actually settled now on blue bella, and im taking a liking to white as well now. so the pink is all yours now ha ha.
Sigh… it looks like I wasn’t able to get my super awesome (sarcasm) camera to work properly and record this in time. You’ve found my second reset. I’ll at least explain it before it’s discovered anymore.
Basically, you know how c.mk moves the opponent forward? It also has a fair amount of hitstun. You can use these two things to combo a c.hp late afterward. If you used an OTG, you may have found something different, but what I found was basically this: if you use c.mk, delayed c.hp to still combo, you can sjc forward and end up on their otherside. You can land a j.hk from it, and continue with c.mp into combo afterwards (although the followup c.mp is difficult to get to combo; either that, o it might be character specific). Some characters won’t work at all with just a regular sj, so you’ll have to use your double jump. Also, I can only get it to work with a point blank c.mk. The only way to really do that that I’ve seen is off of a stagger, or maybe some kind of assist. Also, I think I’ve said this before, but this won’t work on Peacock. The c.hp will never push her behind you, but it WILL always hit her on the opposite side, so they’ll have to now block in the opposite direction to block the c.hp and not eat the followup combo in the air.
Might as well explain the other one while I’m at it. As some of you may or may not know, there are a handful of characters (maybe two, one being Filia) who end up behind you after using a point blank c.mk. after they land behind you, you can continue with a reset with a crouching attack, or DDrop, and Excellabella if they start jumping. However, using a c.hp really late, too late to combo, will push any character in the game behind you, allowing you to cancel into DDrop, or any special. You can also, if you are confident they will block correctly, use an instant Kanchou to cross them up a second time. Tricky tricky.
A couple of variations on gimmicks already discussed.
[…c.MK jc j.LK … j.HK ] I think this is a bit easier to do than than the one without the j.LK, you land a bit closer and you can still control which side you land on.
[c.MK c.HK(or HK) … dp+MP] This is as opposed to a diamond drop reset. I haven’t tested it everywhere on everyone, but I believe you can make it ambiguous left/right while they’re airborne and while you have invincibility which is pretty godlike. Plus you can otg for a combo.
id forgoteen about that ha ha, yea sorry i knew you liked pink bella i just couldnt resist at the time ha ha. i think ive actually settled now on blue bella, and im taking a liking to white as well now. so the pink is all yours now ha ha.