Among all the changes in USF4, there are two nerfs behaves like bugs [Fix needed]

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

  1. Shoryuken nerf:
    Some of the SRK moves have their first non-invincible frame registered as “air-borne”. Like Ryu’s fierce DP.
    This kind of SRK will never get thrown during the SRK motion because they are either invincible or air-borne

    Some of the SRK moves is considered “grounded” after their first non-invincible frame. E.g. Sagat, Ken, Dan. Such that, they are grounded after some trades.
    For the second type of SRK, since their properties from the first frame to last frame is somthing like this:
    "invincible - grounded - airborne"
    They will have “throw invincible” properties in the grounded frames in order to protect them from being SPDed during SRK. E.G. Sagat, Ken, Dan

    In USF4, Seth’s M&H SRK’s invincible frames have changes from 7f to 5f which is actually his first active frame. It’s ok to me since Sagat also got the same frame data, it is still a good DP.
    ** However, they forgot to make the 6th and 7th frame “throw invincible”!! Which means, after 5th frame and before 8th frame which is the first “air-borne” frame, SETH HAS NO INVINCIBLE AT ALL!!!**
    Even Dan got his DP safe from SPDs, I really don’t understand why Seth is not safe from throws when doing SRK.
    This is most likely the case that they FORGOT to make it throw invincible instead of just want to make Seth’s DP nerfed from the best DP to the worst DP

    Normally, since Seth’s DP is active on the 5th frame so that it would normally win against throws that don’t have strike-incivincible. However, if there are spacing issues or you use it when opponent is resetting from the air/ wakeup, you will mostly likely get grabbed.
    I have already been grabbed the shxt out by Gief’s UC1, EX SPD, NORMAL SPD and Yun’s command throw during Seth’s HP SRK.

  2. Ultra 2’s buff nerf:
    We all know that UC2 have its property twisted so that it is easier to connect on air opponents.
    However the property is changed to a point that make this move even more unsafe to use:

    • If you land EX SRK in the corner and juggle with UC2, you are having “negative 2014frames” on hit. Opponents can wake-up Ultra to punish you
      This is because the opponent will drop in mid-combo. This also happens in AE2012, but the one in AE2012 will make the opponent fall down later and much less-punishable.
      This also happens during some combos that ends with UC2 juggle. E.G. Focus Lv2> back dash>forward jump> toes x1>j.mp> toes x3> dive kick(whiff) > UC2
      Even it is landed correctly (EX SRK into UC2 mid-screen), it is still having more negative frames than AE2012 due to the opponent is ending his juggle faster despite the faster recovery of Seth.

      ** This makes you think twice before ending a combo with U2 since it may make you punishable on HIT. Make sure it kills !!**

    • This is more punishable on block them AE2012 since the opponent ends his block-stun faster(due to the new property).
      Such that, even though Seth’s recovery is faster, opponents’ recovery is even faster.

    And this “Buff” is only making U2 more consistent to connect instead of increasing the whole combo damage. In most case, if timed correctly, combo into UC2 will get the same damage in AE2012 and USF4.
    However, it makes this move evenly more unsafe than before. Either totally punishable (which won’t happen in AE2012) or having more disadvantage frames.

2

I already replied in the general forum, but basically DP being vulnerable to throws is intentional. I’ve scooped/tanden’ed other characters out of their DPs in the past. For a good time, do a meaty tanden against Cammy when she doesn’t have U1 stocked. And then there’s Rose, who gets scooped when attempting EX drill/backdash/U2/almost anything. And I haven’t had much trouble with U2 juggles after I realized you need to do the U2 much earlier than normal off an EX DP in the corner. It’ll connect just fine and you’ll get pretty much the number of hits you’d expect midscreen.

3

Thanks for the Tanden tech :smiley:
BTW, the EX tanden bug is stupid
It exists since vanilla and still didn’t get fixed
Combofiend said the following when people complains about Seth’s tanden can no longer be cancelled from a normal
"Seth’s player need to spend meter for applying pressure now"

If Capcom really want us use meter to cancel into Tanden, why don’t they fix the damn bug?
I have caught someone jumping when I do cr.mp xx EX tanden but I freaking whiff my DP by doing HP xx h.DP and get punished badly.
And it spend 2 meters…

I really hope that they can fix the bug and make EX Tanden cost 1 meter when cancelled from a normal (except the 2-hit of cr.HP)

4

If they were to fix the EX Tanden bug, they would need to somehow rework it so that it doesn’t catch pre-jump frames and the first few airborne frames of a jump. Otherwise it would be too strong. Also, 1 meter for EX Tanden would be ridiculous. I can see 1 meter for cancelling into regular Tanden.

5

EX Tanden catching startup frames of jumping is one of the reason why it cost two bars. I think this one is fine because of the meter usage.

I do agree 1 meter for EX tanden cancel is too strong, but 2 meter is just too much as cancelling into EX tanden is not that safe… may be 1.5 meter?
Only cl.hp xx EX tanden can catch opponents jumping. Other normals xx EX tanden only works like normal tanden in AE2012. Opponents can punish Seth badly for doing that.
And the golden glows make this cancelling even more easy to react and jump. If I have 2 bars, I would rather cancel into Sonic Boom and FADC to maintain my pressure.

If I am using cl.HP xx EX tanden in the current version, I need to hit-confirm even the tanden actually hit in order to make sure the bug happens or not.
If it happens, I will just do HP SRK. This is not a effective use of 2 meters. And opponents can actually Ultra/DP after I cancel the cl.HP.

6

you can actually space the ex tanden to catch most vertical Dps, only problem with that is that you need a blockstring into close.fierce xx ex tanden, and that means there’s always a gab right before close.fierce unless you used close.jab ( whiffs on courchers, so it’s not realiable imo). My experience so far with ex tanden has been pretty meh(because of the glitch), theonly time i actually use it is when i have a full ultra 2 stocked (pretty rare since i generally use ultra 1) and i can confirm ex tanden into ultra 2 easily.

7

I don’t use EX tanden engine to catch jump ins because that bug has fucked me so much.

I use it after a j.mp to get a combo going or I use normal tanden engine when I think they are gonna DP or backdash. Stupid Crapcom.