I got the idea for this discussion from that KI thread in which that dude was winning about KI not being uber popular. Nothing wrong with Japanese fighters I mean we all love’em, but it’d be great to see more American made fighters. When it comes to American fighters, for the average gamer only MK, Injustice comes to mind and KI to a lesser extent. And most that were developed during the 90’s were just half assed forgettable cash grabs that were ripping off SF and MK. It’d be great if we had more devs getting into the genre and making fighters with a distinctive western style to them. Like when a person sees this game they know just from looking this is an western developed fighter. Like maybe a graphic novle style, or a cartoonish slapstick style like Looney Tunes for for example. Do ya think American devs could compete with Japan in the fighter market if they really tried? Edit: Alright people I hear ya. It was silly to discount Skullgirls but I had my reasons ( although in hindsight they were pretty petty ). The fact remains that Skullgirls was developed by an American company and has a lot of western influences I.E animation and references. So if some can’t see that and see Skullgirls as anime, just gotta educate them.
If look more closely at SG you’ll it actually takes a lot influence from old american cartoons. Its really just the characters being short and squashy and all the fanservice that make it seem anime-esque. Even still it’s look is different from any japanese game around. In fact some of its characters are very much inspired by preexisting characters. An example would be Parasoul being inspired by Jessica Rabbit.
More examples: peacock is actually there as a throw to old disney and warner bros character (like the looney toons). Double was partially inspired by Marvel’s very own Spiral(An MvC series veteran). And I’m not sure if Alex Ahad ever mentioned it, but Squigly looks real Tim-Burton-esque to me.
Not including Skullgirls, and more importantly, Lab Zero is dumb considering that the latter is the arguably the first time ever we’ve seen an American indie studio do somewhat well with a fighting game in this generation.
Like I said “I’m” not including them because of my personal experience seeing people call the game a anime fighter from first glance. I had to inform people that Skullgirls is developed by an American game developer and that they simple chose to go with a anime esque look. Where as with MK or KI they immediately assumed it’s a American made fighter. But if yeah Lab Zero definitely deserve to be recognized as one of the few American fighting game devs, no argument there.
Yeah that’s very true. The animation is defintly along the lines of something out of a Tax Avery Cartoon. I see Skullgirls with a lot of similarities to Darkstalkers in terms of aesthetics. Anime look with Western animation techniques ( squashing and stretching ) giving it a cartoonish feel. But the average gamer isn’t really gonna notice small details like the animation, they’re mainly looking at the look and style of the game. Hence why the average gamer sees Skullgirls as a more anime fighter.
I agree with the posts above. Not counting skullgirls is just ridiculous. Just because it looks like it might be Japanese doesn’t make it not-american. A lot of the humor and references in the the game are very sectioned on American pop culture and is quite diverse like with Peacock being a homage to classic American cartoons and Beowulf being a homage to American pro wrestling. It’s actually nice that it breaks the mold on what a traditionally American made fighter looks like (dark,gritty,gorey,macabre,gimmicky,etc.)
Another big visual influence for SG is the golden age of Hollywood (the reason why so many of characters wear 40’s and 50’s fashion) and the art deco movement that took place during that time period.
Another source of the game reminding people of anime could be that early anime was very heavily influenced by american stuff-- especially disney – and those influences still echo through stories today.
I think the reason some people don’t recognize these things in SG is because people don’t really know about the history of cartoons and film (or the history of anything really).
As for the other part of this thread:
I think, Americans and europeans don’t really make fgs because since most western fighting game attempts in the 90’s failed, very few people were left with amy technical affinity for the genre. Fighting games are developed differently from other games and that likely puts people off from the genre. This why we saw Seth Killian get called in to help on Playstation Allstars (developed in California) and Mike Z & Keits called in for Killer Instinct.
On top of that, The fact that most popular fighting games today are just revivals of old franchises probably makes entering the genre look even less promising to developers.
Oh God playstation all stars was a game I forgot about. It was a well made American game that to me had fundamentals closer to a regular fg. What ultimately killed that game was the fact that people considered it a smash rip off when in reality it played nothing at all like smash. And then there’s the fact that Sony decided to cut ties with superbot after the game released and turned complete development over to Santa Monica studios,who didn’t know jack shit about what they were doing. The first patch SM put out ruined the game by undoing all the balance fixes superbot did. It also nerfed the shit out of already bad characters and buffed already broken characters because Sony listened to all the scrubs who whined about the Kratos and Raiden nerfs.
Some would say the game was already doomed from the start for even having a similar premise to smash but that game is as different from smash as marvel is from mortal kombat gameplay-wise. It had potential as a series.
Out of all the American fighting games (of which we can only count 4 franchises at the moment), only the NRS ones are doing anything radically different from Japan in terms of mechanics. And a good part of this is due to how MK9 started out as Tekken style 3D fighter, before being converted to 2D, while still retaining vestiges of the old combo system. Alot of what makes MK and Injustice feel different is just from their own stumbling around with the formula based on that switch and has led to some weird properties in their games (i.e. combos not really being based on hitstun, but a combination of whether the attacking character had returned to neutral plus special capture/stun states).
It’s so funny when I hear people saying that SG looks anime, because that was like the last thing I’d think when I first saw the game. Heck, even Totally Spies looks more anime. Do they actually watch western animation or think that it only looks like the 90s X-Men series?
I think people just think upskirts and tons of girls with big eyes = anime. I forgot what/where my source was for this, but I recall someone saying that the general Japanese fan response to Skullgirls is that they love how Western it is and how it employs well done Western animation techniques. So in aesthetic style and in concrete execution, Japanese Skullgirls fans view the game as a Western product. For me, the most anime thing in the game is when Peacock drops a TV with the Touhou parody head saying “Yukkuri shitte ne.” Other than that, it’s just voice clips that reference certain anime or color palettes that reference certain anime characters subtly.
You gringos know shit of what makes anime anime those days.
Niggas mostly watch DBZ and Nabugo these days.
They probably couldn’t name their favorite animu from fall 2014 season.
American made fighting games are trash. It might sound harsh, but when you consider that in the entire history of fighting games there has never been a single Western game that rivals even the most mediocre of Japanese ones, there really cannot be any other conclusion.
I mean sure, I can see how if you never really gave any decent series a chance you would have fun playing Mortal Kombat, simply because you never knew any better, but as soon as you start comparing the quality of not just the mechanics but also the animations and the character designs you have to be honest with yourself and realise that not only did the West never even come close, they actually never even made the attempt to approach the bar that was set by Japanese productions.
Skullgirls might very well be the very best Western fighting game. Just by looking at it you can tell that it could never in a thousand years come close to anything like the quality we’ve come to accept as a matter of course in titles like 3S and KOFXIII. You can tell they weren’t even trying.
I actually played Allstars and gave it a shot. I just couldn’t get with the whole " Build up meter and go for the big finish" damage system. like I forgot where I saw this review of Allstars, I’ll see where I can find it. But this perfectly sums up why I couldn’t get into the game. “smash Bros unique take on the damage/health system works because while it’s different it still follows the fundamental rule. If a player takes damage they are closer to defeat. All Stars damage system is not only different but goes against this fundamental rule. Because the only means of scoring KO’s is with special attacks, there’s really no penalty for taking damage. Sure a player gets closer to getting their special, but the one receiving damage isn’t put at no disadvantage. They can still keep taking risk and playing more recklessly no matter what. Where as in most fighters, being at low health or high percentage in the case of Smash. you’re gonna start picking and choosing when to attack”
I’m sure I can research some more American made fighters. But the four I named ( Yes I’m now including Skullgirls ) Are the only standout ones in the ENTIRE history of American fighting game development. With only MK and Injustice being known by the average gamer and even casual gamers, KI being semi popular, and Skullgirls only being known by avid gamers or fighting game fans. That sucks. But yeah MK has definitely got it’s own unique style in terms of mechanics. That’s what American fighting devs need to do. evelop systems and mechanics that would be instantly recognized as a western style. Like how air dashers are immediately identified as Japanese fighters.
Well I’m not gonna say all American fighters are trash. I mean yeah there was a lot of garbage in the 90’s but as we see today. Devs are really trying with games like The rebooted KI, MK9 and MKX and Skullgirls. So American devs can do it. Just gotta actually try instead of putting out cash grab rip offs like they did in the 90’s. I think with time Skullgirls or the next fighter Lab Zero puts out could be one that could give Japanese fighting devs a run for their money
That’s racist. I care about the game’s style, not the nationality of the developers.
What?! How is that racist? During the 90’s the fighting game market was mainly composed of Japanese and American made fighters ( with originally KI being the exception it was from a European studio ) So what’s wrong with wanting to see American devs get back into the genre? American devs can offer different insight and a different take on the genre as seen in MK9 and MKX and the rebooted Killr Instinct. I just think American devs have the potential to bring the fighter genre mass appeal if they really tried.
I’m just teasing ya lol
Oh lol. I should’ve known you was joking. I mean you of all people here being that sensitive? LOL shame on me for thinking so.
You were able to reduce your opponent’s meter through the use of throws and weapons. And supers weren’t exactly easy to land unless you were Raiden who was the only character who could throw into his level one anywhere on screen. Other characters needed specific set ups and mix ups to land their level ones. The character taking damage from a combo was definitely at a disadvantage since they were at a loss of momentum and not gaining any of their own meter. That’s why Raiden and Kratos were so broken. They were both the best characters in the game at building meter while getting hit the least. Kratos had his full screen attacks which made him impossible to get in on. And Raiden had literally about 5 different ways from any situation to combo into his level one.
Once Raiden did one ap burst on you, you were immediately screwed. If you’re opponent had a level 2 ready and you had no meter then you definitely weren’t going to play recklessly. I played the game quite regularly until Santa Monica released their patch. The whole ending matches with supers really wasn’t as bad as people make it out to be.