Alternative Offense: Kikoanken Crumple Strategies

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

The “crumple” caused by Chun-li’s Kikoanken is a very special status that can be caused only by 2 other attacks in the game (C.Viper’s Focus Attack and She-Hulk’s Clothesline). The crumple lasts so long that Chun-li can tag out and another character will be able to enter and combo the crumpling enemy before he/she recovers.

This can, potentially, add upwards of 250k damage(much more if you begin the attack from the air or continue the combo with an assist before the Kikoanken) to another character’s bnb WITHOUT the use of meter.

That extra bit of damage can turn another character’s 650k combo into a 900k combo, or turn a level 1 hyper into a level 3. With a little bit of cleverness, Chun-li could set up another character’s DHC Glitch without putting the characters required for it in danger, keeping them safe and fresh for the fight. The DHC combo will even end up being a bit more powerful, due to her added damage.

This thread is dedicated to finding strategies that incorporate the Kikoanken crumple into team combos and offense. If anyone has information such has how much another character’s bnb combos do after the Kikoanken or combos that lead into DHC glitches, please feel free to share it here.

2

hmmm… crumple then tag out and continue combo… never thought of that… could be great, GREAT idea! will look into.

-dime

3

Here are some bnb hit strings that can lead into a Kikoanken. Note that Kikoanken only causes a crumple status against standing opponents. If an aerial opponent is hit by it, they will suffer only a soft knockdown. Also, most of these combos outside of the standard magic series will not work on an opponent that was hit while in crouching.

NOTE: M.O.D.O.K. counts as a medium sized character. This is because he shrinks backwards to about half his normal size after being hit.
NOTE: Amaterasu has a very unique crumple animation that will require special consideration when using crumple combos against her. For fun, try using a forward :h:, st :h:, cr :h, against her while she’s crumpling. Hilarity ensues when this is done in a match!
NOTE: Wolverine is the shortest medium sized character in the game, so most of these combos are more difficult to do on him. NOTE: Spider-man is also a medium sized character when in standing hit stun animation.

Standard magic series:

st :l:, st :m:, st :h:, Kikoanken = 199,300
Nothing fancy there. This won’t be winning you any combo exhibitions. The st:l: and st :m: can be substituted for cr :l: and cr :m:.

All characters corner, Medium and Tall characters midscreen:

St :l:, st :m:, st :h:, jump, air dash (*NOT instant), j :l:, j :s:, land, st :l:, st :m:, st :h:, Kikoanken = 265,600
A cool looking, but unimpressive combo. This is the only special combo that works on small characters, since Chun-li simply blows right over their heads otherwise. Jump backwards before air dashing to hit small characters. The only small character that can be hit by this at midscreen is Zero.

*Chun-li has to be at a minimum elevation in order to air dash. If you input air dash too early, you will just whiff an attack.

Medium and Large size, Midscreen:
St :l:, st :m:, st :h:, *jump, instant j :m:, *jump, instant air dash, j :h:, j :s:, st :m:, st :h:, Kikoanken = 299,600

A slightly harder combo. Nets you an extra 100k damage. Works midscreen on characters as tall as or taller than Wolverine.

*The greatest danger in this combo is shooting right over your opponents head and landing on their other side. Surprisingly, this works well as a reset, so stay on your toes just in case your opponent isn’t blocking! In order to make sure the combo hits, you might have to adjust the direction that you jump depending on the opponents size and position.

Medium size, corner:
St :l:, st :m:, st :h:, *jump, instant j :h:, *jump, instant air dash, j :h:, j :s:, st :m:, st :h:, Kikoanken = 310,100
The exact same as the previous combo, except that the last combo’s j :m: was replaced with a j :h:.

Sentinel, Hulk midscreen, corner:
St :l:, st :m:, st :h:, jump, j :m:, j :h:, jump, instant air dash, j :h:, j :s:, st :m:, st :h:, Kikoanken = 315, 600

This combo only works on the biggest of the big, Hulk and Sentinel. You’ll have a surprisingly difficult time getting the Kikoanken to hit, and that is because there is literally no time to spare in doing that move. Kikoanken is a slow attack, and Chun-li players have probably never had to do a Kikoanken in such a short amount of time. In fact, it has to be done before the end of the st :h: animation, which is about 8-9 frames long. If you aren’t confident of your abilities to do a very, very quick half circle motion, you would be safer using one of the other combos.

All of these combos assume that the enemy you hit is in a standing position. Only the standard magic series works on crouching enemies. Except in the case of Sentinel and Hulk since everything hits those guys, standing or not. No Kikoanken works on aerial opponents.

4

well im not one to get particularly in depth with combo creation, but generally i look for my best overall combo starter on the ground and then just use that at all times, with little varying mixups for high/low and countering predictable pushblock… etc.

so my ground starter is lmh kikoanken.

i tested some bnbs from that starter to wolverines bnb and i couldnt pump up the damage at all. the opponent character would pop out of wolvies standard bnb, so i had to reduce it and i was still only getting about 620 k damage in total (wolvies standard bnb is 647k) i also tested sentinel as a folllowup and the damage i was getting was almost the exact same as a standard sentinel bnb…

so im not sure how applicable this is. it definitely lets chun swap out to a different character and let them finish… but, it doesnt have the meter gain that chun would normally have, so thats a big sacrifice. chuns already a hard starter (ie hard to land a first hit/get in) to just give away her meter earning potential when she does land one.

situationally speaking it still looks good for those times when chun wants a safe way out yet AE might be to risky.
unless some harder damage followups are found…

-dime

5

Good point. Was that from the lmh kikoanken starter? Because if it was, then it’s natural that it wouldn’t do more damage that wolvie’s bnb. You’d have to use a starter that does more damage than wolvie’s ground combo if you want to see a damage increase.

Read here the Marvel Vs Capcom 3 Hyper Guide’s explanation of hit stun decay:
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Marvel_vs_Capcom_3/Combo_Limiters/Hit_Stun_Deterioration

The short version says that combos are made of 2 separate parts: the grounded combo and the air combo. Each part has it’s own hit stun that decreases depending on what attacks are used in that portion of the combo. Normally, a character starts a combo on the ground, then takes the enemy into the air, whether by launching or by tripping the enemy. Then the character begins an air combo. As long at the enemy is not standing or crouching, the combo is considered an air combo.

Any attack that hits the enemy during a Kikoanken is considered the beginning of an air combo.

Most characters without jump cancelable attacks have short ground combos, and some characters don’t have ground combos at all, meaning that by using Chun-li’s Kikoanken, there is literally nothing extra damage for them. Characters with jump cancelable magic series attacks do more grounded damage than other characters in the game, and Chun-li is no exception.

I now have proof that other characters with short ground strings do see an average damage increase from Chun-li’s kikoanken combos, and characters without ground strings see a huge damage increase. Sentinel, Hulk, Thor and Dormammu don’t have ground combo strings and they see an increase of 50 - 200k on their bnb. Trish, Ryu, Captain America, Viewtiful Joe and Dante all have very short ground combo series and see an increase of 50 - 100k. DHC glitches receive 100% of the entire combo’s damage.

But none of them benefit from it as much as Phoenix. The fact that Kikoanken allows Phoenix a free and safe combo is unbelievably powerful, stronger than the DHC glitch. In fact, this may be the only thing allowing one to play Phoenix without relying on dark Phoenix.

I believe that the reason your combo was so hard to do after the Kikoanken was because you probably did the entire ground string, but it was considered part of your air combo and thus was decreasing it’s length. And the reason you didn’t see a big damage gain was because you did the weakest and simplest Kikoanken combo, lmh kikoanken. That doesn’t do more damage than wolvie’s ground string, so you’d get no extra damage. If you want to see more damage with wolvie, you’ll have to do a more complicated kikoanken combo, switch to wolvie, and begin his combo from the point in which you would have taken the enemy into the air. I think that would be his st :h:.

I’ll be posting strategies and such later, but first I have to go learn the standard bnb combos of 35 characters, so that might take some time…:confused:

6

^^^ that makes sense. i purposely made my starter and followups simple so as to gauge whether or not there was an actual increase. also VERY GOOD info on kikoanken… so basically its considered a launcher…hmmm.

yeah the starter i was using was lmh kikoanken. keeping it simple like in game. this gives some ideas, but the starters you posted just dont seem practical, needing to hitconfirm stand has always been more of a nuisance to me than its worth.

but for those folks that dont have problems doing that and can still play the game well, it should be a powerful new tool.

-dime

7

chun is the most interesting lab experiment ive seen in a while. so much potential.

yes i just made a faust/baldhead reference.

8

I tried something else out. What if you go:
st.:l:,st.:m:,st.:h:, Kikoanken, st.:l:,st.:m:,st.:h:,:h:legs, Hoyokusen, super jump,(air combo), TAC,…
Then go from there.