No shit? I thought they all ran off a tweaked version of the same engine?
Nice find. This makes SF3-ISM Honda’s Jump In Fierce - C.Short - Fierce Handslap - Super easy to do. But how did he corner juggle a Handslap after that like on that Disk HSFA Combo vid?
So how does 3S detect hits?
Well, the only other alternative would be pixel-perfect detection, which checks if any sprite of one character overlaps with another. But I really doubt thats what third strike does. I would guess they really do use hit boxes, otherwise things like crossups would become immensely easy.
Edit:
To clarify, it probably uses pixel perfect detection within a few areas of the character… which, technically, is just more accurately drawn hitboxes.
Same question here!
You just play the game and go to the install to HD option. Doing this gets rid of the load times while playing the game. Works really well. You still need the disk though. (unless you are using HD advance, dunno if it is compatable with this game though.)
So they are hit boxs then? I’ve never once heard 3S get reffered to as having no hit boxs… Except for now.
3S has hit circles?
did they change sodom unblockable? cant hit it! 
Trying to tone down the programmer-speak:
As far as I have heard, 3s uses a bitmask, which is like a black and white version of the picture of your sprite. You have one for hitting and they have one for being hit, it overlaps the two, and if any overlapping white areas touch then you got hit. However, people use the fact that it’s not hitboxes to try to express that 3s is more accurate in terms of hit detection, which is false. It’s all due to the quality of the collision data, and the problems are still due to the fact that it’s 2D frames.
Quality: If you were to accurately cover a sprite with 1-pixel-big hitboxes, the quality would be equivalent to a bitmask (but a lot more data, yeah yeah). Hitboxes were used because they’re easy to set up by hand, so you make bigger ones and approximate the sprite’s shape because it’s faster. Bitmasks are also easily tweaked - you can modify them by drawing in extra white pixels, so you could “color in” hitbox areas if you wanted to. The two are really equivalent representations of a character in the world of collision, it’s just that big inaccurate hitboxes are easier to draw by hand, while pixel-accurate bitmasks are (nowadays) easily generated programmatically from each animation frame, then tweaked for little cleanups.
2D vs. 3D: In 2D games, your collision is either where it is on frame 1, or where it is on frame 2 - there’s no in-between. You could create extra collision data for where the collision would be halfway between the frames, but again at some point it is finite frame-based data, and anyway that is a lot of extra work. This means there is no notion of movement between the frames - either you hit ON a given frame, or you didn’t. This is why you get the effects of say Makoto’s EX Hayate vs. Chun’s dash, where they go through each other. On frame 1 they were both right in front of each other, and on frame 2 they have passed each other already. There is nothing in-between. Or Wolverine’s dash vs. Zangief’s Green Glove, or dashing through a Rocket Punch/Shockwave, etc. Even Zangief’s c.Strong vs. some characters in A3, where he punches past the back of them.
If it were a 3D game with actual spatial information about what hits where (spheres, boxes, meshes, what-have-you), then you could do continuous hit detection (i.e. continually evaluate extruded collision shapes in the time between frames, don’t worry if that was over your head) so you’d never miss through someone because they animate around your hit. Zangief’s fist would start at his body, move through space until it was behind the other person, and at some point the other person would have gotten hit.
In fact, a lot of the reason that big inaccurate hitboxes were drawn to begin with is to overcome that problem: the big boxes overlap between frames, ensuring that hits will always hit if they should have. If they were really accurate, there would be little to no overlap, and it would be easier to miss with something that “should” have hit.
Um, thesis: Though 3s may not use hitboxes, it still has the same problems as hitboxes do. It’s just a lot easier to generate pixel-accurate collision data for each animation frame, which eliminates sloppy, inaccurate hitboxes. Moves in 3s were still cleaned up and tweaked, of course.
That was a lot longer than I intended.
Mike Z
O.O 
How can you use this information to your advantage?
in in the alpha anthology everything is DEFAULT set to the newest version, to select the version with the redizzies and unblockable sodom hk, you need to select game options with either r1 or r2(i forget) and pick one of the earlier 2 versions.
Thanks for clearing that up, good read.
Goldsplinter, I don’t think you could, it’s just logic.
Ahh… my bad.
Someone figure out how CCs work. …and why it’s harder to juggle in the corner with them in HSFA.
Actually, The Yoga Book Hyper clearly states that the life bar is 100 points.
My bad.
I didn’t bother translating that (or any of the other stuff, like the name of the move, the command for the move, etc) because it’s common knowledge, and I was pressed for space as it was. I just wanted to get the really important stuff down.
Understood, understood.
But totally cool! Never new that. Thanks!:wgrin:
Only thing I can think of is Alpha 3’s wall juggle limit exists for all modes. If it isn’t a problem in AA’s actual Alpha 2 then there’s nothing much else it could be.
re: 3S hitboxes
Yeah. Capcom made a big deal out of it’s “analog” hit detection for the game. To summarize what Mike-Z said, instead of big rectangles representing where a character can hit and can be hit, it’s really just a (not 100% accurate) bitmask of the character. The character’s “vulnerable box” is now the character itself, and the “hit box” is whatever limb is performing the attack.
Furthermore, because of this, EVERY part of a character is vulnerable at all times. There are no attacks other than supers and Makoto’s headbutt recovery animation that has frames of invincibility. This is why you see so many more hit trades in 3S than any other SF game.
well most throws are invincible too.
interesting to know about the hit box thing though, I never knew that.
Wait, I find that hard to believe.
First, you must also mean supers and EX moves, because I know for a fact that there are a lot of EX moves that have frames of (full) invulnerability.
Second, it must be a partial/modified bitmask. How do things like Dudley’s “Ducking” move and Ibuki’s dt.MK “slide” move go under so much stuff (like “through” fireballs") if their whole body is vulnerable. And then there’s anti-airs like Ibuki’s c.HP, and Chun’s standing HP, and Yun’s toward+HP that are so good because it seems like their upper body has no hit box. Plus things like Ryu/Akuma far standing MK and Chun back+HP just seem to have really huge forward hitboxes, while their hit areas seem to be their “body” and not their limbs.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. But looking back at some of the crap I’ve seen from Elena, it’s really hard to believe.