counter hits give more damage plus you can combo into more stuff that you couldnt do before. like with a shoto, say you get a counter hit with a low forward, you can pretty much link that low forward with any other ground attack like a c.rh or whatever. the counter hit puts the opponent in a longer hit stun. grounded fierce and rh counter hits will knock opponents into the air, so its always good to cancel that hit into a special for an easy, but good damage combo. like ch b+fierce xx charged up fireball with sakura. hella good damage and reliable. and only works off counter hit. during a counter hit, when the opponent is in the air, their hit stun lasts longer so it takes longer til they are able to flip out, even if you are in neutral animation, gives you more opportunities.
the most important attribute of a counter hit is the ability to combo into crouch cancel attacks. ccâs are all based around counter hitlike, get an air to air counter hit, land and crouch cancel back up and hit em again, and do it as many times as possible for free damage thats unflippable.
Counter hit combo i was thinking of today, would look insane if someone could actually pull it off during playâŚ
crouching lk x 2, crouching FP counter hit >> jab bad stone >> lvl 3 final destruction
I think it should work in theory, the crouching lkâs are just to get the right distance for the bad stone.
Anyways if a light attack get a counter hit, it causes the same amount of hit stun as a medium attack. A medium attack counterhit causes a hitstun length equal to a heavy attack. And a heavy counterhit causes the opponent to be launched. Depending on the type of attack the launch may cause the opponent to go up above you or may cause them to fly into the corner.
Launching counterhits and air-to-air counterhits also have the added property of âextended floatingâ in that the opponent will stay up a little while longer in the air than usual, which is what allows crouch cancel combos to work. Also VC hits automatically cause extended floating, as long as the opponent is launched or the opponent was hit in the air during the VC.
Oh BTW Sabre, when you use Cody competively, do you base your entire gameplan towards getting a cc. infinite? Because if that was the case, couldnât you just use V-Ryu and do the same?
No, i dont base my play around the infinite. i could tho, just run build meter, vc into cc infinite everytime. yes i could play v-ryu and do the same, but itâs A LOT more practical with cody. infinite is much easier to land for him than ryu. my gameplay is based around zoning, counter poking, and major counters, slowly eating my way inside. once i am in range, i go all out and rush to force them into the corner and thats where i kill them. i dont ever try to play a character and rely on vcâs to win, gotta learn to fight without the reliability of it or your screwed once you have no meter.
Ah OK, anyways that counter hit combo of mine wont work, thats what happens when you post at 3am :bluu:
Oh by the way were crouch cancel infinites ever banned at a tourney? Or are they left in because even though they are a exploiting a hole in the game engine, they take some skill and luck to execute???
crouch cancels arenât really like say, ST Akuma, or even CvS2 roll cancels. only reason i could think of for banning it would be because the combos look âall wacky and stuffâ. like Ryu j.JP (counter), ccj.SP, ccj.SP, FP xx shoryu i think would look just plain messed up, from an old school playerâs aesthetic or even a VS gamerâs. they just look⌠weird. btu theyâre really fun to use when you know how to integrate them into your game. like i mean Vega suddenly gets 2 (3?) free fierces off a jump short, Chun has that bitch ass dizzy combo, and Rog has more ways to TAP anyoneâs ass.
i think the damage is raised to 120% if a move hits on counter //
on V-Sagat
shit⌠i canât remember who posted this, but that j.SP is great. two of the fuckers and theyâre dizzy, then just BnB for two fierce tiger blows. my only problem now is actually getting anyone that high to hit them with it, i mean right now i can only see abuse on Chuns Guys Vegas Rolentos and Blankas with it. any setup suggestions for Sagatâs j.SP? besides counterhit j.SK i meanâŚ
Oh BTW didnât Apoc place high with an X or A Balrog in an A3 tourney? Iâve never heard of ANYONE else using Balrog in A3 ever, he must be the only guy in the world who uses him LOL
I was just wondering what type of stuff Apoc did with Balrog in the A3 tourney, wonder if he ever used the reversal headbutt or TAP??? Iâve been playing him a bit and his punches just seem awesome, he just doesnt seem much of a jumping around type of character since all his punches are downward angled, seems like he just stuffs everyone pokes until they get careless or dizzy and then supers them. I think hes got some nice juggles with the dash straight and super dashing straight. SP seems to stuff almost everything, for almost risk free jumpins and zoning. And then if that doesnt work you can just mash on JP and SK for blindlingly fast jabs, Iâd be afraid to go near him. Balrog can so easily intimidate.
Anyone know if V-Balrog is viable at all? Allâs i can think of is a corner guard crush or juggles from air to air counterhits.
crouch cancels were banned at first at places like b4 when no one really knew anything about it. back then, the only crouch cancel we knew was ryuâs infinite on the 1p side. it was banned cuz that seemed like a totally unfair advantage to the 2p since they couldnt do it. later it was learned that 2p ryu could pretty much do it, just gotta do it totally different. and the fact that everyone has the opportunity to do crazy stuff with it. theres no luck involved with crouch cancels man. atleast not for me. i know when to go for a cc everytime. i recognize a cc situation everytime and go for it. thats the hardest part about learning ccâs. knowing the situations where it can work and doing it when you see it.
v-rog is a waste. he has no vc except for cc j.fierce vc. definitely not worth it. hes only worth playing in x/a. rog ac is very good. one of the best in the game IMO and does a ton of damage for an ac which is a major plus.
OK so can somebody please explain V-Sodom? Everybody else circling around top tier I understand, but not Sodom. And why does he own Gief? Cansomebody just explain all that shit? CHeers
Been mucking around with Balrog a bit more, the 3 attack buttons sure make it easy to charge the TAP, the TAP also seems to dodge fireballs, and the reversal headbutt could be used as an anti-meaty crossup attack, although i havent had the chance to test it yet.
Balrog works very nice in the corner, works a bit like Cody except he relies more on pure poking pressure than mindgames. Its just annoying having to use the downward dashing punch all the time otherwise you are open everytime you finish a combo with dashing punch.
speaking of sodom, has anyone seen that vc where its just jab scarapes over and over? i saw a vid with a jpa player doin it in a tourney but when i try it the timing is a bit too tight for me is it viable or just stick to the other?
I know I will sound strange asking questions about Gen and Dhalsim, but I can think of two:
Have anyone notice how the Venom Fang fall vertically on the head of your opponent INCONSISTENTLY? If your opponent doesnât move and get hit, he may be send in the air on the left OR on the right, but the direction is really not consistent. Is there a way to predict which side of the head Gen is going to land (and which side his opponent will go) before jumping in the air?
I tend to play Gen A-ISM and Dhalsim A-ISM very aggressively (probably too much). How do you usually play them?
Actually, I find the JP scrape corner combo to be his easiest. No timing issues other than doing it as fast as you can, unlike the posted Sodom combo. Fast scrape here, slow down a bit here, then do this reallly, really fast, etc. The posted combo is also position sensitive â gotta have enough starting space to land the initlal 3 scrapes otherwise itâs a waste of meter, unlike the repeated JP scrape â it doesnât have to start in a corner (the scrape pushes the opponent into the corner).
Yes4me:
I play Gen in a poking game. Gotta love that FP. Dhalsim can be played any way you want, but can be played brainlessly defensively.
I also believe I know Gen fairly well⌠well at least what he can do. But I am very far from being able to beat top tiers. Today, I played a Dhalsim X-ISM that beat the crap of me. I was sweating, thinking clearly, but I couldnât find any weakness, and had no idea what to do against a guy who was not even thinking!! Here is his entire basic strategy against my Gen:
If I am far
If I jump, drill punch
For anything else, fireball.
If I am close
If I jump, drill kick
If I go for a crossover, slide HK
For anything else, slide LK*10000 and do the super without any fear of retaliation.
Hereâs another headache: Dhalsimâs jab punch as anti air. NONE of Genâs moves beat it, which means that unless Dhalsim is open, such as right after a second-guessed fireball, itâs impossible to jump on him. And yes, that slide is pretty annoying, since it is unpunishable for the most part, and prioritizes just about everything Gen does, including his supers.
There are some bad match ups in Z3, and that is one of them.
Jump onto the wall, and come down on him from above. You probably wanna switch to punch style while you do this and DP something ASAP, but thatâs just a guess. You may want to be in punch style any time you get close though, unless youâre using the divekick super. Though this guy sounds like he jumps a pretty fair amount, so you may end up having chances to use the stomp super.
That roll attack goes under fireballs, and will gain you a lot of ground, if you can make it like a third of the way to him.
what do you mean by the first one? I think Gen may have a couple of moves that beat out the drills head-to-headâŚhe should be throwing you anywayâŚ
If youâre in punch style, I think you can sweep him if he whiffs a drill, or just super. I donât think the Short slide goes under Genâs DP, so you might want to try that when you get closeâŚsets up a crossup, tooâŚ
I think I got it now. Using the A3 national 1998 and my own experience, I wrote a new section how to deal with each move of Dhalsim!! From my test on Nebula, Dhalsim seem to outpriotize almost all the moves, all basic/special/super moves, of Gen.
Since the drill kick can come out way too fast, only the Reverse Waterfall HK could deal with it. If not, you got to jump away like everyone who fought Dhalsim with Gen.
Regarding the slide LK, only the Death Point Attack level 3 can help you hit your opponent. Beside that, there is no move that could hit back⌠and that include the Cruel Shadow level 3, the Reverse Waterfall HK, and counters in both styles.
The drill punch is the only one that can be countered a little easier⌠but you canât use the super Cruel Shadow or the Crane.
Since top tiers seem to be played the most, I am starting to learn top tiers just to know how to beat them!! My brand new character: Zangief Z-ISM.
Thanks to macros, I can finally pull some 360 moves!
My Zangief is a brainless happy-jumping monkey!! Against the computer, my entire strategy seems to get close to my opponent, and either grab him or destroy his guard bar. I also jump almost non stop and abuse that splash HP over and over, and sometimes go for a grab. To grab my opponent, I usually do one of the following moves:
c.LP, uppercut punch, 360 grab.
c.LK, 360 grab.
f.MP, 360 grab
Jump and attack very early, fall down and 360 grab.
Is that the way people play Zangief or I am missing more important stuffs? Any good vid showing how people play Zangief⌠if possible against Gen?