Alpha 3 Non V-Ism Characters

[Kyokuji]

So according to this I should see lots of Japanese V-Gen, V-Guy, V-Dictator and V-Boxer players who are rarely anti-air VC’ed because they can now drop-through? This is not happening in our current SFA3 climate.

Again, I never said they were better, just that there is an argument for using so-and-so on V. There are so few good Dictator/Blanka/Boxer players at higher levels that it’s hard to say anyway. I mean the last great Blanka player I spent any length of time playing was Sparatik.

Still, Gen already has a defense against AAs with his air super so he doesn’t need it and Guy can vary the arc of his jumps with his elbow, plus he has all his crazy combos in and out of his super that he needs to be competitive. Not to mention it’s one of the best hit confirm-able supers in the game. One of the things with V is that it shuts down his flip mix-ups and makes it more risky for him to follow-up anti-air jabs with it, and that wouldn’t change if he switched to V-ISM.
You’re right about the others though. Boxer’s style of play is not conductive to V-ISM (plus he doesn’t have jack shit on it), although dictator is more of a keep away character, so I think he might have some potential with it even though it would hurt his damage output.

stocked with a gauge or not; and not what happens when the meter is gone. That is a different argument.

That should factor in to your decision regarding ISMs though shouldn’t it? I suppose you could make the argument that A-ISM lets you vary the level of the supers you’re using, so you could technically always keep 1 bar handy for ACs, although I don’t know how scary a level 1/2 GSR really is. You need to keep in mind though that if you’ve counter activated through something, you’ve also made them blow their meter which puts you back on equal footing with someone who might normally be a lousy match-up.

You’re probably right about a lot of the other stuff. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying “use everybody in V”, I’m saying “if you want to use somebody in V, there are quite a few benefits to doing so”. More so with certain characters than others.

[TS]

Rose can activate after a connected crouching Jab or Short, or a counter hit crouching Strong. One of a few reasons V is better than A, IMO.

Speaking of whom, X-Rose a pretty good character to start with, just because of how obscene the super is, especially if you’re playing people who don’t/can’t do damage reduction against it consistently.

[Kyokuji]

I still don’t understand damage reduction properly. Most of the time, I just mash and hope for the best, but there’s gotta be some technique to it, because there are times where I mash my ass off and get like 1 or 2 hits of DR, and other times where I barely do anything and I DR the whole thing.

[Slide]

Yeah about that Rose thing, I knew it was something.

I thought that in the Q & A thread though, someone said Rose’s activate was 2 frames, and so was Sakura’s. It was from that Rose video that showed some of her V combos, and she had a small CC series after it too.

By Valle VC, I meant that you can hit them with a low start-up hit (c. LK) before they have a chance to switch from high block to low. Most anyone can do it, but I remember reading that it’s harder to defend that against Rose because of her shorter activation time in some topic a year ago, and then seeing it being used in a couple matches.

No.
You can alternate guard while the screen flashes.

I think in Rose’s case, you are able to hit them with cr short before they get a chance to block first. If they’re already blocking then they can alternate the guard high or low in enough time.

• anti-airs which hit early so the opponent has to commit to activating as soon as they jump in or risk getting hit; this type of anti-air is not the sort can can be easily reacted to: air throw, high angle anti-air

I thought I’d mention that’s a good tactic for Charlie. st jab, cr fierce, st forward, far roundhouse, cr jab, or cr strong. usually though with my V-Charlie, I settle and get away with cr strong, st jab, and cr fierce alternating. That’s also how A-Charlie can be successful fighting V-ism.

[Iczer_one]

About the V-Rose thing:
Dunno why i always keep forgetting it, but c.MP gives +4 frame advantage as well. So you can link after c.LP, c.LK AND c.MP without a counter hit. What a monster … :wgrin:

Best thing about V-Rose is b HK, god i love that move. Wish she had it in A-ism instead of her way harder to use f HK (which is still pretty good in conjunction with soul illusion as an anti-flip move and for getting them into the corner).

[Middlekick]

Yeah about that Rose thing, I knew it was something.

I thought that in the Q & A thread though, someone said Rose’s activate was 2 frames, and so was Sakura’s.

Everyone’s VC activation start-up is 5 frames, except Sakura and Chun li who have only 3 frames; Rose’s VC activation is 1 frame, and her mid-air activation is 4 frames.

[TS]

I thought that in the Q & A thread though, someone said Rose’s activate was 2 frames, and so was Sakura’s. It was from that Rose video that showed some of her V combos, and she had a small CC series after it too.

She has one of those recharge infinites, where after you do 15 or so jumpinr Strongs, you get 50% meter back and can re-activate. I’ve gotta YouTube it or something, since nobody ever seems to put in any combo videos. The only place I’ve seen it done by someone other than me (ie. someone good) was in a Japanese video, in that terrible .3gpp file extension.

[System_1]

I think the problem with Rose is that the set-up for her re-activation infinite is, that the opponent has to BACK flip, if the opponent does nothing or roll, he’s out of danger. You can show of it in a combo vid, but it won’t work against a player who knows about this detail.

Maybe there’s a legit set-up for it. But the one I’ve seen is not.

[Slide]

I think I might still have the Rose video on my laptop.

Whenever I get on my laptop, i’ll try to upload it on youtube. It might take awhile on this connection over here.

I remember after we all saw it last year it was a pretty interesting find. Like that Ken 1p inf.

[Iczer_one]

That infinite has been around for a while now, but like Lomo said, the setup is escapable.

Just for the record, A-Rose can handle activation quite well. Her meaty unblockables are safe (cannot reversal activate through it if done right), her illusion aa setup is safe (cannot drop through and hit Rose because she recovers early), and she can even jump in with illusions and at least trade with a good number of aa VC’s (well ranged early j.LK is a great shield move + you can usually combo c.LK -> c.MP xx spiral after it while still being safe). That should be considered for A-Rose vs. V-Rose :china:

[Xenozip]

There is a legit setup for it. The shadow has to hit before Rose recovers from the attack that you use. If this happens then it doesn’t matter which direction the flip or if they don’t flip at all.

Once you do enough jumping strongs you get enough meter to reactivate.

If you guys can’t find the video then I can make one.

[Slide]

If you guys can’t find the video then I can make one.

You’re such a combo beast. :lovin:

Please make it, so the notation is known.

[Xenozip]

I don’t know how this thread got jacked. But, sorry to the thread starter for further threadjacking it.

[media=youtube]OwjkB5dhuRI[/media]
V-Rose V-ism Tech Traps

Transcript:
First,
VC1 (LP+LK), c.MK, qcf+LK, [b+HP, whiff qcf+MK]x4, whiff MK, {shadow hits}, (opponent techs backwards), j.LP, whiff j.MP, cc j.LK, whiff j.MP, {shadow hits}, [cc vertical j.MP]x16
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x15
then cc j.HP, c.HP, whiff hcf+HP

Second
VC1 (LP+LK), c.MK, qcf+LK, [b+HP, whiff qcf+MK]x4, whiff MK, {shadow hits}, (opponent techs neutral), j.LP, whiff j.MP, {shadow hits}, cc whiff j.LK, j.MP, [cc vertical j.MP]x17
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x13
then cc j.HP, c.HP, whiff hcf+HP

Third
VC1 (LP+LK), c.MK, qcf+LK, [b+HP, whiff qcf+MK]x4, whiff MK, {shadow hits}, (opponent techs forward), j.LP, whiff j.MP, {shadow hits}, cc whiff j.LK, j.MP, [cc vertical j.MP]x16
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x15
then cc j.HP, c.HP, whiff hcf+HP

Fourth
VC1 (LP+LK), c.MK, qcf+LK, [b+HP, whiff qcf+MK]x4, whiff MK, {shadow hits}, (opponent does not tech), j.LP, whiff j.MP, {shadow hits}, cc whiff j.LK, j.MP, [cc vertical j.MP]x17
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x14
then cc j.HP, c.HP, whiff hcf+HP

Fifth
Note: the opponent uses damage reduction (mash for pink flash = damage reduce) on each hit of this combo except a few shadow hits.
VC1 (LP+LK), c.MK, qcf+LK, [b+HP, whiff qcf+MK]x4, whiff MK, {shadow hits}, (opponent does not tech), j.LP, whiff j.MP, {shadow hits}, cc whiff j.LK, j.MP, [cc vertical j.MP]x17
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x17
then cc j.VC1 (LP+LK) j.MK, [cc j.HP]x2, [cc vertical j.MP]x6
then cc j.HP, c.HP, whiff hcf+HP

Point: Standing MK duration lasts long enough for the shadow to hit the opponent before Rose fully recovers. Therefor the tech window is after the shadow hit, not before. Rose recovers fast enough after the shadow hit to connect a j.JP before the opponent is able to block, coming out of a tech. The option select used makes this possible regardless of what direction the opponent techs, or if the opponent does not tech.

This is not possible with standing MP because Rose recovers before the shadow hits, therefor the tech window is before the shadow hit. I was also unable to guarantee a setup off c.MP or b+MP or LP. It may be technically possible off c.MP or b+MK but it isn’t guaranteed relative to how the opponent techs (or doesn’t tech, I dunno).

[Iczer_one]

s.MK eh, good stuff :] Thx for putting so much effort into the vid (+transcript), really appreciate it.

[TS]

Oddly enough, I ended up stumbling onto the YouTube video before seeing this post.

So I guess I don’t have to correct anyone about the infinite setup being escapable.

Though, since I’m already posting-

IN YOUR FACE. BOOYAKA BOOYAKA. Oh what? Air recover backwards? Orly? That will work. I don’t think so, SON. This ain’t no 2001 type stuff here, this is that AMAZING ROSE action in the HOUSE. Like LL Cool J’s failed sitcom.

:mad: WHAT?? :mad:

…

Anyway, yeah, there are a couple of legit setups, but the one in Xeno’s vids is actually probably the easiest, except perhaps for my super ghetto one.

edit: incidentally, did you try this with 2P Rose? Because you’re jumping forward which messes with a lot of 2P VCs in the corner, you may need to do a cc walk backwards and then something like jumping Short on the way up into Strong on the way down.

Re-activation combo is also a bit different too, since jumping forward can be a problem. ou can do something like (VC2) jumping backwards Jab, jump towards Jab, (shadow hits), cc walk backwards into neutral jumping strongs.

Doing it in VC1 is a bit trickier, so VC2 is easier if you’re Player 2, I think.

[Xenozip]

Right, P2 CC VCs are always a bit of a problem. But yeah there’s a couple ways to do it with P2.

And yeah there are other legit setups. The one I used, I did because it was the same inputs at roughly the same time for each situation (option select), and therefor guaranteed.

Maybe I should just make a collective techtrap and P2 CC juggle video for the cast. But actually I was kinda interested in something a little different.

[TS]

This is an ironic conversation for the thread it’s in. But I’ve been wondering why someone hasn’t made a video for that already.

[EveryFlowerFlow]

Alright to further thread jack, for sake of future A3 vs A2/other game arguments, anyone know exactly how many characters have cc-inf’s, currently. the list used to be about 8 characters, but it’s getting bigger as people are discovering more stuff :looney:

[Kyokuji]

Off the top of my head:
V-Ryu, V-Cody, V-Sodom, V-Karin, V-Claw, V-Boxer, V-Birdie, V-Chun’, V-Sagat, V-Rolento, V-Rose, and I believe V-Blanka and V-Ken have them on P1 side with re-activations.

[Xenozip]

This is an ironic conversation for the thread it’s in. But I’ve been wondering why someone hasn’t made a video for that already.

If you mean A-ism videos then IMO the only ones worth doing are Guy, Gen, and Rose.

You’d be hardpressed for content for anyone else.

Alright to further thread jack, for sake of future A3 vs A2/other game arguments, anyone know exactly how many characters have cc-inf’s, currently. the list used to be about 8 characters, but it’s getting bigger as people are discovering more stuff :looney:

P1 and P2 no reactivate:
Ryu, Cody, Sodom, Chun, Karin, Sagat, Claw, Gen, Birdie, Boxer

reactivate:
Rolento, Blanka, Ken(?), Rose

Sodom and Karin might actually fit into the reactivate category due to the nature of their CC’s, but I do know for a fact that they are technically also possible without reactivations. Also Birdie might fit into the reactivate category but I’m not really sure.

Characters left out:
Dan, Honda, Dhalsim, Charlie, Guy, Dictator, Mika, Dolls, Sakura, Adon, Akuma, Gief, Ken(?).