All the technical curiosities in cvs2 here (and random notes)

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
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This thread is made to answer and solve everyone’s curiosities about cvs2, mainly technical side of the game.

I’ll list a few to kick things off.

I always wondered… why does the hit effects for Bison CC change the game speed if you are just about far s.mp away from the opponent? Like…if you corner someone, jump in rh - c.lp - c.lp - s.mp - lk scissors - activate - s.mp - start painting. The timing to get all 5 hits gets a little slower than if you were right next to them. I guess the game is just weird like that…the effects slow down the game more at that distance than it would if you were right next to them I guess.

which motions for specials have higher priority over others? It seems like commands for supers take higher priority than regular specials (ie. doing hcbx3 punch to get raging storm with Geese). By doing the hcbx3, if you were fast enough, you are basically overlapping 3 commands in them: fireball,counter attack, and super. And the super will always come out. Also, if you don’t have any meter with Akuma and do hcbx2 punch, you get a dp instead of a red fireball. I guess dp’s take higher priority over fb’s. The only exception I can think of when specials take higher priority over supers in an overlapped command is during CC’s. In the middle of Sakura CC, try to get a kick(shoryureppa style) super by doing a dp+fierce XX qcf+kick (3s super cancel style). Although you clearly have motion for qcfx2 in that, the super will NOT come out. Instead, you will get the dp+kick move of hers. If the rules about command priorities were to be applied to CC mode, super should come out like it would in 3s super cancels. I think capcom did this on purpose to allow stuff that involves commands like Iori/Kyo GC customs ONLY during CC.

We all know that you have to do almost a hcb+punch if you want to get a turned around dp against cross ups, but sometimes the dp will come out as turned-around even if the command was done as usual. Maybe it has to do with the time the motion was done (at the time of the motion, the opponent was still considered to be infront of my char), and when the button was pressed (the char was considered to be behind when I pushed the button for dp)?? Someone should clear this out. That’s just my theory on that.

With ChunLi, if you cancel it late enough, c.mp XX lv1 kick super will NOT combo. It happened repeatedly when I noticed that I canceled the low strong to lv1 super REALLY late.

Gunter’s wrong about what happens when you activate A groove meter. He said that “you don’t lose any frames by activating” in his Iori vs. Blanka video, but I even have evidence to back MY statement that “You GAIN frames by activating.”

It seems like the crouch cancels happen pretty much exactly the same way it did in A3. Of course you can’t do infinites and extra juggles and such in cvs2 with crouch cancels, but the way crouch cancels/avoiding neutral state work are almost identical. In A3, if you swtiched sides, you didn’t have to worry about crouch canceling to avoid neutral state, because the fact that you are turning around to face the other way avoided neutral states completely. In cvs2, that aspect about turning-around is intact. It’s evidenced by killing someone with a cross up attack and then just holding back/forward to walk when you land, instead of having to crouch cancel to walk around after killing someone in cvs2. It’s just a note about the game engine really…since you can’t use that aspect to your advantage or affect the gameplan. It’s for all you who are like me. I get better in a game if I know the game inside and out.

A friend of mine uses ChunLi’s c.mp as anti-air against my Sagat. I tried empty jump - super to counter that anti-air, but it doesn’t work. I thought if I didn’t lose my trip guard, I could super immediately when I land…but I guess I can’t…according to Jame’s Chen’s cvs2 systems guide, I can’t do anything but guard when I just empty jump. Like…you can’t even dp that c.mp, all you can do is guard. It’s not like ST where you can land and get a reversal dp to punish meaty attacks as you land , but ST didn’t have trip guard in the first place. So I’m not stating much here, I guess.

I’ll post some more when I remember them. It’s already long enough as it is:D .

LAUGH

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[quote]
*Originally posted by laugh *
We all know that you have to do almost a hcb+punch if you want to get a turned around dp against cross ups, but sometimes the dp will come out as turned-around even if the command was done as usual.
[/Quote]
The reason why it comes out if the command is the same, is because your kinda cancelling the turn around motion, unless you’re in the air, then it won’t cancel.
There’s also a little thing where you can “reverse crossup” the opponent while they’re in the air.
When your opponent is above you and attempts to cross you up. Jump backwards when they’re above you at the peak of their jump. Both your backs will hit, then you’ll land in front of your opponent. You can do a crossup move to hit your opponents back.

This idea can be applied in different ways:
1)Guile vs. any character with small jump…
Have the character small jump crossup behind Guile, and have Guile do cr. forward when that character lands. Guiles back will hit the opponent.

2)Ken in a run groove vs. C Groove…
Have Ken run across the screen, and have the opponent regular jump over Ken, and when the opponent starts to fall after the peak of the jump, do forward+RH. Ken will turn around and the RH will hit the opponent.

3)Sagat in a dash groove vs. anybody trying to crossup…
Opponent tries to crossup, Sagat dashes under and does qcb+Rh. A Tiger Knee comes out in the opposite direction.

4)Dash groove Blanka vs. any character trying to crossup…
Opponent jumps in and Blanka dashes at the same time, Blanka tries to hop(kkk) forward, but he hops backwards with his back facing the opponent.

There’s a weird situation in the 2nd player corner with Chun after the kick super into air kick when the opponent will fall with their back facing you after you walk under them into the corner, but its hard to explain spacing and all that.

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Bison: The dp will hit at a different height because you are at a different distance (his hand arcs), this means that the time to get 5 hits is different.

For the reverse dp/dp thing: if you complete the motion before they cross up, and press the bottom AFTER they cross up, it still registers as f, d, df + p but you are facing the cross up side when the motion is completed. If however you press the button BEFORE they cross you up, then you are still facing the same way, and the motion is completed, so you go the wrong direction.

Motions in cc’s: The motion in cvs2 is lost when a successful motion is performed. This is why you cannot cancel qcf+p (fireball) into qcf+p (super) like in 3s. However, parrying does not count as a motion (ie, in street fighter 3 if you parry and do a fireball it comes out as parry fireball).

Chun-Li c.mp: hmm, I thought you would be able to dp this too, the only reason you shouldnt be able to is if the c.mp hits off the ground (like her c.roundhouse)

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If he keeps using c.mp as an anti air just use your roundhouse a little later so you can kick her in the head and proceed with the ass whooping…

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?? I think he said it fairly well, if activating alows you to do normally impossible links it does in fact give you frame advantage. There is no other way it would let you do impossible links. The degree to which it gives you frames is what you are debating. IE, a move that leaves you at -5 probably wont be punished if you activate, but possibly a move that leaves you at -1 or 0 might be punished if you activate and time it perfectly?

Of course, this is all on the assumption that activation lets you do links that dont normally work. Unless there is some magical property to activation that they programmed in for no reason… like, the logical statement involved would be so specific; “if (activation occurs) while (opponent is in hit stun) then (opponents hit stun += 2)” … that would be jokes… but it could explain it. Because come to think of it, just giving frame advantage would be impossible to do. Because it revolves around hit/block stun and recovery time. So hmm… ok I just countered my own opinion :bluu:

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Its too bad you can’t kara cancel counter-rolls. N-Groove would be so beastly.

…

You can’t, right?

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LB is a beast.

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lmao… :lol:

That’s a great av.

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When activated, charge moves need no charge. There’s obviously a difference in how it accepts inputs.

When doing sakura’s ground cc, you press punch at df or forward. then it registers a new f, df, d, df, punch. If you hold down and then start tapping lp, you get down, down+lp, down, down+lp. Even though you’re holding down(1 press) you get as many down inputs as you want.

Yes, the system disregards any inputs that result in actions. there is no buffering. Even in CC mode. So you can’t do stuff like FB cancelled into HCB, ala magneto in mvc2.

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That’s another thing i’ve been meaning to talk about. I’ve activated SEVERAL times when I didnt have meter. The only thing I could think of was kara-cancel activation to get meter. It was fun. “What?! You didnt even have meter!!” “… i know…?”

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Do you mean the meters not full, or no meter AT ALL?

You can activate when the meter is 97 % full.

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Mother fucker, you couldn’t tell me that before.

j/k, I tested it and that shit is gonna save my ass, no more waiting for a flashing bar before laying on the smackdown.

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does anyone know WHY that’s possible?

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I’d like to venture a guess (seeing as how i can’t go to the arcade and try right now).

When you Cannot activate a CC, Pressing Hp or HK will get you part of the power bar.

So you press HK or HP when you have 97% or close to a full bar, you actually get some bar, but the computer also recognises that you have activated the CC at the same time (THis may be the same type of reason for buffers, where the programmers give you a leeway of a few frames to activate a special).

So maybe all that’s happening is you press for a HP, and within one frame, you press HK.

Once you pressed HP actually the bar filled up (TO Max)
And you Press HK and it activated.

Voila.

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No, I watched it frame by frame and Sakura(in my case) goes into activation stance, then her meter is filled to 100% by the activation itself. There’s no kara-cancelling of the fierce.

Nick T. said it properly:
You can activate when the meter is 97 % full.

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Due to the flexible execution windows of special moves in Capcom games, you can do the DP motion and wait a split-second to push the punch button. This gives your character enough time to turn around and do the DP in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, whether you have time to turn around all depends on the arc of the opponent’s crossup, how much time you have after fully standing up before the crossup hits you, and how long the opponent has been on your other side. I’m pretty much convinced that Reversal turn-around uppercuts are impossible and that if your opponent’s crossup is timed correctly so that you have no choice but to do a Reversal, it’s going to go the wrong way. However, this may also depend on weird stuff like which way your character was facing when the knockdown happened, cuz we all know that there are a lot of throws that turn you around.

In A3, crouch cancels avoided neutral state for as long as you were in standing-to-crouching or crouching-to-standing animation. Just crouching was considered a neutral state too, and you couldn’t just do a counterhit air-to-air jump fierce, crouch upon landing, and wait until the opponent falls down a little to do a low fierce. You had to do something like tap down to go into crouching animation and then hold forward to start walking before your character fully crouched.

In CvS2 at the end of the round, you can just hold down to retain control for as long as you like before pushing a button or before the game decides that it’s time to move to the next round. So it’s not really A3-style crouch-canceling that’s going on, just CvS2 being weird and arbitrary about the stuff it lets you get away with after the KO. In fact, it’s been tested and crouch cancel doesn’t work in CvS2. But the turn-around neutral state avoiding technique does work.

This was first explained by Sai-Rec. To test it out, use Kyosuke and do his DF+HK, jump cancel UF really early or really late so that you jump under or over your opponent, and push an attack button in the air. It doesn’t matter if it hits or whiffs, but it’s necessary to do an attack. Now hold back as you’re about to land on the other side so that Kyosuke starts walking forward as soon as he lands. Keep walking until the opponent stands up, then do like j.LK -> j.MK -> j.HP or whatever. Therefore, you can get Kyosuke to retain his ability to do air chains after a launcher for as long as he can avoid neutral states, by using the turn-around trick. But you can’t avoid landing neutral state with crouch cancels.

Same goes for lvl2 cancel state, ex-groove special xx super cancel state, and EO P-Groove special xx super cancel state too.

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You’re incorrect here. if you do, down, df+punch in a CC, you wont get anything. you have to go all the way to forward. Ie Forward, down, down-forward, forward (down, down-forward).

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You’re wrong on the sak cc.

“When doing sakura’s ground cc, you press punch at df or forward. then it registers a new f, df, d, df, punch. If you hold down and then start tapping lp, you get down, down+lp, down, down+lp. Even though you’re holding down(1 press) you get as many down inputs as you want.”

So you do the 1st dp, but when you let go of punch, it registers forward, then you do d, df, f + p…repeat.

If you managed to perform the combo as you described, you would get a crouching fierce.

EDIT: as for yamazaki, you can be anywhere on the screen, as long the lvl 2 grabs. The snake arm does not hold for the full length though, it only lasts about 2-3 seconds post death.

Another fun cancel is Kim’s footstomp into super. It can be timed so that you kill the opponent with the stomp, but the super comes out with mega freeze.

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If you’re curious why that Yamazaki thing works, it’s cuz CvS/CvS2 assigns certain moves the “OTG property” for the duration of the move. For example, Kyo’s third rekka in his QCF+MP, QCB+P, P variation has the OTG property. There’s a way to extend the duration of the OTG property by somehow avoiding neutral state. This can be done either by canceling the move into another move (in A-Groove, EO P-Groove or EX-Groove) or by interrupting the move and having Kyo do a Reversal.

I don’t remember where i saw it, but someone made a video with a cool A-Kyo combo where they did the OTG rekka and canceled it into low short which made the upponent stand up. Then they mashed some buttons cuz that’s what you do in CC combos then did a c.HK sweep xx s.HK xx RED Kick xx low short and mashed some more buttons. Since Kyo never reached a neutral state the whole time after the OTG rekka, he retained the OTG property all the way through to the low short following the RED Kick.

Anyway, Yamazaki works the same way, because if you notice, his grab super first knocks you down and then OTG’s the opponent after you’re done powering him up. But the OTG property gets taken away as he does the final hit with all the pink shit. So another thing you can do without setting them up to die is to wait till he last hit before the one with the pink shit and cancel it into QCB+HP whip thing. Hold down HP until they fly up a little and hit the ground, and let go to OTG them with the HP whip thing.

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I’ve seen that combo too, looks SOOOO cool.