just practice the cancel in training mode.
their really isnt much advice once can give =/
Unfortunately this is true. There’s no magical advice to getting better execution. What I CAN say is that WHEN you practice it might be good to try the following:
Practice HP xx SA2 withOUT the karakusa first.
Corner your opponent and do HP xx MK-version SA2 so it whiffs, dash in and repeat, that way you make better use of your time get more reps in.
Pick a game with input display and practice the same input there (there’s a cheat to get input display in MAME iirc) to see if you’re missing any directions, starting too early or jsut doing the motion too slow.
Also, I used to start hold back after a karakusa and do HCF,QCF isntead of QCF*2, because I kept getting the C.HP. I just do it from neutral now cus my execution is sharper now.
ummm… if any one is still reading this and could reply:
i went to Sunnyvale Golfland around December and managed to play very good (relative to my Makoto) Yun and Yang players that were nothing short of frustrating. =]
the problem with Yun was obviously the Genei Jin activation.
i tell myself, “it’s obvious: block low, react high.” but… it just ain’t that simple.
i understand that Genei Jin has often been referred to as “free damage,” but i need tips on staving it off a little longer.
the match that i’m most interested in receiving help in, however, is the Yang match.
i was simply powerless to stop this Yang. i was constantly put on the defensive (something i’m not used to when playing Makoto x]). could someone give me a general outline of what i should be doing, looking for, in this match up. i played him a few times, watched him play a few times, but i could come up with nothing to get this guy off me.
the best thing i could come up with out of desperation was… dash up SAI (it connected). lol… i was definitely frustrated. x]
just to give some insight into my playstyle (things i think are good/bad, etc.):
- almost always SAII, whether it be Chun, Yun, Yang, Ken, whoever…
- challenge EVERY wake up (this is one of my bad points, i guess).
- like to put people into the wake-up mix up (ex oroshi, kara-karakusa, karakusa, sweep)
- constantly, abuse dash up throw (i feel like most players aren’t quick enough, unless they’re looking for it)
- like to do random EX Hayate (same reason as the dash up throw, people dun expect it, usually)
That’s kind of tough to answer. I don’t know your opponent, but more importantly both Yun and Yang are very solid characters.
Does the Yang attack you a lot? or is he patient? Ditto for Yun.
Yang’s got a very basic but annoying mixup that’s kind of safe. I’d pick SA1 if I were you to make him think twice about letting me block non-EX slashes. I’ve played some mid-to-good Yangs that mix up their options very well and I wasn’t able to figure out moments where parrying was in my favor, but still, when I guess parried after dive-kicks and on wake-up it often turned the match around once I guessed right. I’m not saying guess parry all the time. But if you’re in a very basic mixup situation and one combo away from being stunned, or have enough life to survive a combo but are behind, go for it.
Neither Yun nor Yang have a DP to worry about after a Hayate. Only Yang when he has super should have you worried in that situation. So you’re in a strong situation once you get the initative back.
Neutral jumping may seem like it’s getting you nowhere, but it stops both their strong air game before it gets started by letting you stick out j.HK when you see them jump at you. I prefer doing this personally, because it usually eliminates a step where they can outplay me and brings it back to basics. Once they adapt to you neutral jumping, you can stop and go back to the ground game (where you want to be), until they start using the air game again.
I’m going out on a limb by saying you’re safer off dashing in vs the twins than most other characters. As long as you mix up the timing and don’t always dash as soon as you can, there’s not much to be worried about until they are spcifically looking to punish it. The closer you are the shallower a possible divekick would be so no guaranteed combo, throw them out of whatever it is they want to do and keep in mind shallow divekicks usually means re-jumping. EX fukiage under them or just air-to-air if they do that. Same goes for if they jump straight up if you try karakusa after a connected Hayate. Normal jumps would be too slow to punish your karakusa recovery, but with the divekick they can tag you out of it, however, since it’s shallow, there’s nothing guaranteed after it. Same rules apply.
If they’re looking to punish your dash then there’s room to jump at them or dash punch the recovery of c.mk (if they’re looking to whiff-confirm it into dash-punch/slashes). It’s all guess/trying to read your opponent, but if you’re aware of their intention, which could be any of: build meter, attacking by air, attacking by ground, defending for dashes etc. there are ways to counter each.
Yang specifics:
-if midscreen and you’re blocking slashes, dash-back does well to break up the mixup.
Yun specific:
-passive aggressive Yun’s go for surprise attacks like shouldres and dash-punches out of seemingly nowhere, you can try to look for and parry those, or just be more careful/patient.
-after quick roll watch if they like going for c.lk x dash punch
Both:
-Try practicing parrying crossup divekicks in the corner.
-Learn to recognize whiffed divekick ranges by playing around with themn in training mode
-don’t always do quick get-up.
I hope this doesn’t sound too much like a vague general vs. everyone type answer. Also, I’m sorry I can’t help you with Genei Jin.
flight240
you need to ask more specific questions to get worthwhile info against the twins
General advice is too hard to give
ZenFire, thank you very much for your extensive write-up. I’ll try to keep your advice in mind. I feel like it’s good general info to integrate into my scrubby play. :bgrin:
What I’m seeing is I have to neutralize their dive kick assault (because its really annoying x] ) by beating them to the air first and stopping it right away so they want to try something else; dashing in can up the pressure, but I have to mix up attacks and timing upon getting in.
For Yang, I have to neutralize the mix-up by a well timed (or guessed… haha) parry to bring the match back in my favor. SAI will be a better choice to keep a threat against blocked slashes.
For Yun, do not constantly challenge the wake-up offensively because of a low short to dash punch and look out for the shoulders as a parry of those can bring some damage in.
i guess i realize this point, though i feel like ZenFire gave good general advice.
i guess for Yang, my questions are:
-
What pokes do I have with Makoto that are the safest to use, or should I not even bother with this gameplan? While fighting the Yang player at SVGL, I was put into a situation where I could felt like I could not use my cr. Forward or cr. Strong (my favorite things to stick out there). This left me on the defensive and eventually thrusted me into a corner.
-
Makoto doesn’t have a lot of options in the corner or on wake-up. Although I sometimes get caught on wake-up, I’m more interested in what to do when I’m in the corner and Yang is on top of me. It’s hard for me to see when a good opportunity to escape or get a grab in arises. I guess this is where SAI comes in handy? Are there any good escapes in the corner that I can use to try and stop Yang’s pressure once I’m there? The best I could come up with is low short spamming, but I want to get out of the corner.
for Yun:
-
is SAI once again the better choice? does it offer any threat to Yun once he’s in the genei jin? it has a once frame start-up if i remember, so i guess it’s up to me to just get it in when i think best. Yun’s (at least from what i can see), do forget how to block once they’re in genei jin, which i totally understand. haha…
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the Yun player i played, once he activated genei jin, he would mash out low shorts, then try the command grab. it seemd like if he did this long enough, the command grab would connect even if i was blocking low? is this right? sorry if this is REALLY noobish to ask, but it’s something i noticed and did not understand.
in general, against these two:
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should i always do nothing but block low/react high on wake-up? it’s a little frustrating because it just keeps me on the defensive and again i’m seeing no opportunity to stick something in to get my stuff rolling? it’s like having a conversation constantly yelling over you… pointless analogy, i guess. haha. parrying would be a good answer, which leads me to my next question:
-
i’m sorry if this is really vague or something that just has to be learned through experience, but what opportunities are there for makoto against these two? ZenFire already pointed me to one, SA1 after blocked mantis slash. are there any general Yun player patters while in genei jin, that’ll give me an opportunity to stick out something?
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i guess as a joke question: dash-up -> SAI? no? haha. maybe something to use sparringly? i think the SVGL guys will be looking out for that now. x]
that’s really all i can come up with right now. i appreciate any and all of your advice. thank you very much. sorry if i’m asking stuff that’s supposed to be general knowledge or whatnot… especially about Yun and Yang. but Makoto is all i’ve ever really played, so it’s hard for me to think in other character mindsets.
vs yang the best thing to do is to block well.
you do have good pokes like s.lk and c.mk that can knock him out of his offense, but they can be parried both ways.
s.hk is good vs certain yang lows if he’s doesnt have +frames or isnt right in front of our face.
ive probly said this before
Your question is still somewhat vague… As for what button to press I would personally try to press the right one in that given situation:wonder:
once hes on top of you those pokes are not very good… your pretty much limited to cr short, st rh and uoh assuming your didn’t look for a parry/red parry
you could also try to get a cr jab out as a tick and follow it up with a cr fp, or cr strong/fwd
or wakeup ex tsurugi (sggk or not)
jump parry away/over, etc
Do your best stay out of the corner, once your their you pretty much have to guess with less options available to you
If you decide to jump I’d recommend you jumping out not up, but you will probably have to parry a cl fwd anti air after you have gone over his head. Miss this parry and he will put you into a command grab loop mixup (assuming sa II with saIII he might just do roll post launch an activate depending on meter and the given situation)
Although if you get the parry tag him with rh on the way out
most would say yes
You can’t duck throws, command grabs in gj are done at the beginning or towards the end
only works if it wasn’t a single jab slash, also max range ex slash(up to two slashes) is also safe (too far for sa1 to hit :sad:)
yes… but it depends on the pattern and their are quite a few
thank you very much for your response.
i’ll definitely try to keep your tips in mind.
most of my 3S experience stemmed from playing shoto players, so i have minimal experience with even the top tier characters chun and yun.
hope to gain some more experience when i back up north and drop my SVGL, again.
I haven’t got a chance to play 4 yet. But does anyone play like her at all in that game?
how do you cancel the Hayate into SA1? I tried it but then the enemy can block it. What am I doing wrong?
it’s a link. just go to training, put dummy on all block. karakusa, st fp, hayate, SA1.
timing is a little bit easier when you piano the SA1 from fp to lp.
sakura is like makoto with the stun but without the damage and 4 pretty bad matchups
abel kinda plays like her w/ the command throws and stuff i guess.
im kinda noob with makoto and i just started playing on a stick so, how do you cancel s.hp into SA2? is it the speed of your double motion or is there some trick to doing it?:wonder:
it’s just for show.
Its really all in practice but what I do is I do the HP and immediatly do the QCF,QCF K. I usually finish the motion around the down forward of the second QCF and kick.
i wonder
what to do against urien and necro? 8(!!
More Specifically, help on Urien, it’s like fighting Mini Gill.
-stay out of the corner
-c.mk beats all of his pokes except for s.hp
-punish a whiffed s.hp with a hayate or something
-once you have him feeling like he can’t hit any buttons, get up in that ass
-stay out of the corner
-mixing up is weird because he can headbutt, so adjust your options accordingly
…i dunno
you forgot spam st strong