Alisa B. SFxT v.2013 Changes - Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
1

Alisa Bosconovitch:

Life - 1000->950

• :lp: Close/Far LP - Startup 5F->4F

• :mp: Close MP - Startup 7F->5F

  • Reduced frames by 2 (On hit +7)

• :mp: Close MP - Added 5F to boost combo (On hit -3F/On block -9F)

• :hp: Close HP - Startup 11F->8F

  • Reduced recovery by 3F
  • Area from chest and up is invincible against air attacks

• :hk: Close HK - Added 8F to boost combo (On hit -9F/On block -14F)

• :hk: Far HP - Area from chest and up is invincible against air attacks

  • Midair hit causes knockdown

• :d::mp: cr. MP - Startup 8F->5F

• :d::mk: cr. MK - Push back on block when used in boost combo reduced

• Destructive Form :lp: LP - Hurt box enlarged

  • Damage 6x5(30)->8x5(40)

• Destructive Form :d::lp: cr. LP - Damage 6x5(30)->8x5(40)

• Destructive Form :d::mp: cr. MP - Startup 7F->6F

• Clock Setting (Destructive Form):qcb:+:p:- Hit causes vertical float

  • Damage 30+15x4+50(140)->40+10x4+40(120)

• Rocket Punch:qcb:+:p: - After shooting, no longer moves backwards

• EX Hard Reset (Destructive Form):hcf:+:2k: ,:p: - Block stun on last hit reduced by 14F (On block -7F)

• L. Happy Propeller :dp::p: - Block stun of first hit reduced by 10F

  • 2nd hit will not hit crouching opponents

• EX Eject Slider :hcf:+ :2k:,:k: - Removed armor properties before recovery ends

• Trigger Shuffle (Super):rdp:+:3k: - Full invincibility from startup until first frame

• Spam Bomb (Throw):lp::lk: - Damage 120->130

• Double Bull Shoot (Back Throw):b::lp::lk: - Damage 120->130

Special move meter gain:
• Double Rocket Punch: Whiff 15->5/On hit 40->20
• Cradle Star: Whiff 10->15/Cradle Star (deviation): Whiff 5->10/On hit 40->30
• Happy Propeller: On hit 20x4(80)->15x4(60)
• Hard Reset: Whiff 5->15/On hit 40+40+30(110)->15x3(45)
• Eject Slider: Whiff 5->15/On hit 20->50
• Thruster Right: Whiff 5->15/On hit 10x6(60)->8x6(48)
• Thruster Left: Whiff 5->15/On hit 10x3(30)->20x3(60)
• Double Cut: Whiff 15->0/On hit 5+5(10)->30x2(60)

2

I think this is gonna be one of the most painful nerfs for Alisa:
• EX Hard Reset (Destructive Form):hcf:+:2k: ,:p: - Block stun on last hit reduced by 14F (On block -7F)

That was my main go-to move to end a block string because of how safe it was.
What do you guys think? She got anti-air normal buffs, which is nice.

And what exactly does “causes vertical float” mean? Will clock setting still be able to combo into stuff?

3

Well the patch notes don’t say anything about regular Hard Reset being nerfed.
Vertical float is definitely a buff for Clock Setting because the opponent will be launched much closer to Alisa, allowing for easy juggles even when not in the corner.

4

I agree with spyder, clock reset might be much more usable mid-screen now that you will be able to follow up easier from the vertical float. I love the use of close HP and CADC, and with that getting buffed you might be able to convert anti-air’s into consistent juggles, but her health took a hit, her df.lp’s hurtbox got worse, her EX hard reset got nerfed, and her projectile no longer pushs her away (I liked that it pushed her away, made it alot harder for people to punish her) Her hitbox’s on her normals are really what needed a buff, her st.lp, cr.mp, close mp, all got buffed in some way or another, but her st.lp is still pretty stubby, her cr.mp is still a pretty poor normal, even with the start-up increase. Her close.mp was already pretty damn good, so I guess thats going to continue as such.
I just still see her normal’s being very sub-par, the biggest buff I see is her anti-air normal’s really opening alot of potential for damage. Her special moves are what really are going to make the difference in this patch, her destruction normals got a damage and startup buff, this is nice, and it adds on to their effectiveness as pokes, this is good as they really want you to focus on her destruction mode for pokes, atleast their nice enough to make those good.
Happy propeller and EX hard reset, while being a pretty nice block stun nerf, I didn’t use this personally, so I don’t feel like ill be effected to much, but im sure others feel like this is a bit ruff for a character like alisa to get nerfed in such a way, I always thought a big strength alisa had over alot of other characters was amazing switch cancel options from almost any situation.
I used her team super to go through projectiles from just farther than mid-screen, now maybe her super will be more capable of doing this. I hope the new invincibility makes this move applicable in new situations, but practically this isn’t that much of a change.
Overall I think she’s been buffed, I don’t like the HP nerf, but otherwise she seem’s like she’ll have better in close normals, better destruction pokes, and a new destruction mode combo mid-screen.

5

My Thoughts

Life - 1000->950
Obviously bad for her, but no biggie

Close/Far LP - Startup 5F->4F
Making her fastest normal faster is a good thing. But it was never very good, so I don’t see it as something big.

Close MP - Startup 7F->5F

  • Reduced frames by 2 (On hit +7)
    Close MP - Added 5F to boost combo (On hit -3F/On block -9F)
    Did anyone use this for boosting? Anyway, the new frame adv. is huge. It’s safe and combos into the new cr.MP and cr.MK into special. We no longer need to use LP after it in hitconfirms. Does anyone know the startup on far.MK? If this combos into lost access we just got ourselves big damage.

Close HP - Startup 11F->8F

  • Reduced recovery by 3F
  • Area from chest and up is invincible against air attacks
    Very nice buff. The new startup and hurtbox will make it a decent anti-air against people with normal to short jump arcs. It it hits high enough you should be able to AA with cs.HP CADC cs.HP CADC cr.MK xx special now.

Close HK - Added 8F to boost combo (On hit -9F/On block -14F)
Noone cares. It always sucked to end boost combos with.

Far HP - Area from chest and up is invincible against air attacks

  • Midair hit causes knockdown
    Not as big as cs.HP IMO but still a good thing to have. It’s pretty fast so if the hurtbox is good enough it could be a very reliable AA. CADCs should be possible too. It certainly won’t be free to jump in on normal form Alisa anymore.

cr. MP - Startup 8F->5F
See st.MP above. Not sure if it will be usable in footsies. Probably not. Cr.MK does the same thing without putting you point blank.

cr. MK - Push back on block when used in boost combo reduced
Meh

Destructive Form LP - Hurt box enlarged

  • Damage 6x5(30)->8x5(40)
    More damage is nice, but the hurtbox might be Alisa’s biggest nerf. Especially if the low hurtbox is enlarged.

Destructive Form cr. LP - Damage 6x5(30)->8x5(40)
More damage is still nice. This one usually hits more than a couple of times per round for me.

Destructive Form cr. MP - Startup 7F->6F
This is huge. The link after easy/lost access will be cake now, and the one after cr.LP, which means we will do more damage, and use less meter.

Clock Setting - Hit causes vertical float

  • Damage 30+15x4+50(140)->40+10x4+40(120)
    If our speculations are right, this is obviously a very nice buff. The st.LP link afterwards that we have currently is too unreliable. One thing that came to mind is that comboing into cr.HP after a midscreen CS might be possible for a hard knockdown. (In the corner she goes under unless you do st.LP, st.MP before it)
    The damage nerf is not a big thing, especially since some form of des.LP is usually is part of the CS combos, so that’s 10 damage straight back. I assume EX will still do 160.

Rocket Punch - After shooting, no longer moves backwards
We will get used to this. I don’t think it’s a big deal except that we might have to stop doing cr.HP xx Rocket Punch in far footsies now.

EX Hard Reset - Block stun on last hit reduced by 14F (On block -7F)
Ouch. This into cr.HP is my favourite gimmick.
Gimmicks aside it will no longer be a fully safe tagout. I think this change puts it on about the same disadvantage as regular Hard Reset, so still semi-safe versus most characters. But the momentum will be lost.
I guess EX Fireball will be better now to end unsafe boost combos. In destruction form we will have no way to switch back into normal form and keep the momentum without a knockdown.

L. Happy Propeller - Block stun of first hit reduced by 10F

  • 2nd hit will not hit crouching opponents
    Did we just get even worse wake up? Combine that with roll nerf and EX hard reset nerf we will have difficulties ever standing up again if we fall.

EX Eject Slider - Removed armor properties before recovery ends
I didn’t know the slide had armor at all. I will have to start exploiting this before the patch hits.

Trigger Shuffle - Full invincibility from startup until first frame
Good. We can use it to punish unsafe tags (which we will see more of) and throw out in between individual hits of strings with gaps. It’s pretty fast as well so we can also blast through fireballs with it now.

Spam Bomb - Damage 120->130
Double Bull Shoot - Damage 120->130
Good. Alisa already has a strong throw game. With increased damage, better startup and buffed oki (roll nerf), plus faster close normals our frame traps just got better.

Special move meter gain:
Double Rocket Punch: Whiff 15->5/On hit 40->20
Cradle Star: Whiff 10->15/Cradle Star (deviation): Whiff 5->10/On hit 40->30
Happy Propeller: On hit 20x4(80)->15x4(60)
Hard Reset: Whiff 5->15/On hit 40+40+30(110)->15x3(45)
Eject Slider: Whiff 5->15/On hit 20->50
Thruster Right: Whiff 5->15/On hit 10x6(60)->8x6(48)
Thruster Left: Whiff 5->15/On hit 10x3(30)->20x3(60)
Double Cut: Whiff 15->0/On hit 5+5(10)->30x2(60)

Basically our unsafe combo enders got buffed meter gain and transition/chip moves got worse. The fireball is the most significant nerf.
I think our meter gain overall got worse, but with no change to the normals and DES.K, we will still have plenty of meter most of the time.

System Changes (that matter)

Normal throws - Startup changed from 7F->5F
See above. This is nice for us. Although with Alisa’s weak upclose defense it might backfire because everybody else got it too.
Does this apply to air throws as well?

Guard cancels - Can no longer follow up with additional hits after connecting with a guard cancel move
Awesome. Now we can pressure ppl even harder in destruction form.

Recoverable health speed - Speed of life recovery reduced to 1/3
Awesome. Now we can zone even harder.

Fortitude gem effects - Small:100 Mid:130->Small:80 Mid:110
Life Force gem effects - Small:80 Mid:100->Small:60 Mid:80
Harmonize gem effects - Small:60 Mid:80 Large:100->Small:40 Mid:60 Large:80
[ID:23] Immense Power Lv.3 - Attack 30%UP->Attack 10%UP Effect Time 10 secs->20 secs *Along with changes, name changed to Immense Power Lv.1
[ID:182] Harmonize Lv.3 - Life recovery 80->Life recovery 60 *Along with changes, name changed to Harmonize Lv.2
[ID:189] Harmonize Lv.3 - Life recovery 80->Life recovery 60 *Along with changes, name changed to Harmonize Lv.2
I don’t think the gem changes really matter to any single character. Those were all too good on everyone. A welcome change even if Alisa doesn’t care.

Forward recovery roll - After a forward roll, hurt box appears 7F before any additional actions are possible (still throw invincible)
Both good and bad. If we’re standing still we should be able to reaction punish rolls easily with cr.HP (both forms).
But our terrible wakeup just took a grand hit too.

Cross Arts - Initial move damage changed from 100->150
With her millions of ways of comboing into cross art, Alisa is happy about this. Since she can’t combo into super in DES, a new major ender is welcome.
AA DES.HP, cr.HP xx Cross Art is gonna hurt now.
Lost/Easy Access, cr.MP (new easy link) xx cross art will too.
AA fireball, dash, cross art will too.
etc

Pandora - Timer increased from 7 secs->10 secs
Ohhhhh yeahhhhhh.
That should mean 20 seconds of Gold War Machine with pandora extend. Alisa is the one character that will benefit the most from this system change.
Even with 10 secs, a bound into pandora into her super should finish in time now.

Overall she seems buffed, but time will tell.

6

I just noticed this:

Does this mean we lose our juggle after a Double Cut? I guess I’ll have to start using c.MK to link into Thruster Right…

7

It causes a knockdown instead of an air reset, so if you anti-air with it, you can connect a combo afterwards.

8

more notes from the last blog:

what do you guys think

9

I’m going to assume the double rocket punch was a bad translation and the only thing changing is we don’t move back after firing because I don’t even know what that could possibly mean, and the official site says nothing.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/sfxtk/system_update.html

Crouching HP nerf I assume was to put the final nail in the coffin for cr.HP xx rocket punch. Des HP nerf who cares it will still probably be good and we have real anti airs now in normal mode. Trigger shuffle easier to combo into is nice as well.

10

I never really used cr,HP xx Rocket Punch, I see it used a lot but it doesn’t seem like a useful tool imo. If I want to end things safely I’ll xx Hard Reset from cr.HP or cr.MK for a frame trap(which can lead to big damage if you tag).

The destro st.HP nerf is gonna hurt because you can beat a jump-in REALLY late as it currently stands and unlike some alisa players, I don’t mind chillin in destro indefinitely.

11

It’s a nice zoning tool but fireballs not moving me back is going to help control space a bit, the big nerf to zoning is fireballs no longer building INSANE AMOUNTS OF METER on whiff.

I don’t think Destro st.HP is going to hurt that much, it only worked against somewhat distance jump ins. Only thing I really liked in DES mode was overhead and st.LP.

I think having a real anti air other than j.HK and jump throw will make being in normal mode at neutral best, and DES for pressure only.

12

I liked the idea of Alisa for some time and I am looking for a zoner with interesting options now that Raven is getting a little stale for me. Thing is I never really tried her because based on the main thread it seemed that she was quite difficult to use for not too much of a reward (I am pretty damn noobish and try to avoid all but super easy links atm).

Given the changes, do you think that Alisa will become easier for less experienced such as myself to play proficiently? It would appear so, given buffed antiair (like everyone else), faster moves, and most importantly making links much easier. What say you?

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

13

They had to NERF the knock back on fireball. A problem with Alisa’s fireball is that is had slow start up, built a lot of meter, and the fireball had wonky properties.

The knock back on her fireball allowed her to not be punished by poor fireballs, most notably, medium fireball. If you time the medium fireball late, it trades with jump ins 100% of the time and then you can connect with really, whatever you want.

Destroy Form was always very strong, but honestly, seldom used. Her zoning was so strong that she could just do fireballs all round, run away, build meter, and be annoying.

Honestly, far fierce as AA is a rediculous buff that honestly, she needed, but may end up being too strong.

The knock back, however, is greater than the fireball meter NERF. She is still going to be strong but I’m glad that her fireballs have to be spaced properly now, making the player have to be more hasty about throwing fireballs, similar to how Gouken has to do it.

Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk

14

Yeah I can understand that, I’m going to have to play without getting pushed back to see how it works.

That pretty much defines my game play right now run away zone and when they get past that and jump I normally just eject out to the other side and keep doing it.

15

Look on the bright side, now that rocket punch doesn’t push us back, we can hang out slightly less than fullscreen and chuck plasma until we’re ready for a cradle star/eject slider.

As it stands now, you have to dash forward after a rocket punch to ensure your cradle star doesn’t whif.