Akuma’s wakeup offence is quite safe. He’d suck if his offence would be as risky as you’re pretending. In fact when applying pressure on wakeup Yun is a lot more prone to getting reversaled with something than Akuma. Akuma has so many setups that beat/make reversal whiff that yun can only dream of. If you’re smart Akuma’s offence is usually safe. I can’t remember the last time I ate a wakeup ultra with Akuma, and I can indeed remember the many times i got hit by it while using Yun.
And Tokido beat momochi, who is a REALLY good Yun, this means that the matchup is not really unwinnable. Sure it’s very hard, and Daigo raped him, but this doesn’t necessairly mean that you cannot win unless your opponent is an idiot. Poongko made Daigo and Yun look totally free, but I don’t think that Seth has a 7-3 advantage against Yun.
The only thing really in need of a fix is his ex cmd grab, but as we all know, crybabies were too loud and capcom is gonna destroy him like they did with Vanilla Sagat.
This is probably a very stupid idea to balance a game lol, but what would be really fun is if that Capcom instead of nerfing the twins, they’d try to bring the best version of each character in the game + any buffs they got throughout the series, that would be so awesome (also of course buff the weaker characters more).
Vanilla Akuma, Sagat, Ryu, Rufus, Rog, Gief (his damage, 3f cr.lk, knockdown EX GH, U2, larger lp SPD LOL he’d be so S tier :P)
Super Cammy, Guile, Bison, Honda, Sim
AE Makoto Fei Yun Yang
superlollo is talking out of his arse, as usual. He’s just salty because he was in the process of switching to Yun as a main and now that Ono has acknowledged that he is the most broken character ever created in the SF4 series, lollo won’t be able to get cheap wins because of Yun’s bullshit anymore.
Yun needs to be nerfed. I never called for any other character to be nerfed. Not Cammy, Bison, Ryu, Balrog, not anyone. But Yun needs it. Just look at the match-up specifics: he can’t be tatsu swept, fs.HK doesn’t hit twice on low block, his DK can’t be SRK’d on reaction, AA Demon is nigh on impossible to land, there’s no safe jump off a forward throw… And to top it all off he has more health, does more stun and has a higher dizzy threshold than Akuma! Oh, and let’s not forget his massive damage combos, his piss easy execution and his vast arsenal of extremely safe moves, including a command grab with ridiculous range. Yun might have some bad match-ups (e.g. Sagat) so maybe he doesn’t need to be nerfed across the board, but the Akuma match-up is so lopsided it’s ridiculous.
Here’s what I think they need to do to Yun:
*First off: his stun needs to be dropped to 800.
*Second: health should be 850, the equal lowest in the game.
*None of the other 3S characters can be tatsu swept, so they probably won’t do that, but there’s no reason why fs.HK shouldn’t hit twice on low block against Yun.
*Genei Jin can stay but the meter building, off his palm in particular, needs to be cut in half.
*The hitbox on LP lunge needs to be brought in line with the other lunges so that it can be AA Demoned on reaction.
*And the biggest one as far as I’m concerned is that the dive kick needs to be changed so that it’s like Cammy’s. It should have just one trajectory. That way you have a fair chance to DP it on reaction. As it stands now DP on reaction is not really viable because it can be easily baited with the LK version of the DK.
I’m gonna come off as superlollo’s nuthugger, but he’s right. Take for example another mixup heavy character like Fuerte. He has every tool to win, sure, but they’re all very punishable if the player makes a wrong read. Now Akuma’s palm: great meaty, air attack, breaks armor, allows for OS. While the DF grab doesn’t have as many benefits, it’s still an amazing mixup tool that non-Akuma players would kill for. As far as his DF kick and command dive kick go, the Akuma player can make reversals whiff while also pressuring with a meaty air attack (other characters have this too, however).
I do agree that Capcom needs to buff everyone back and stop giving us Nerf Fighter IV revisions. Give everyone their vanilla damage and stun and buff those values for characters that came in later.
I don’t know if I quite agree with you wholly, but I get your point. However, I have (on occasion) fallen prey to a wakeup ultra when I was SOOOOOO sure I’d set up correctly. Just goes to show that even small mistakes can lead to big problems with Akuma.
Momochi plays Yun like he played Akuma: cautious. He waits for an opening and then goes to town. Tokido didn’t give him many openings and so Tokido got the best of him. Poongko is ON right now… It’s not even funny. The recent vids I’ve seen of his play, he makes Seth look even MORE O/P than Vanilla Sagat was…
That’s actually all I’d really want too. I don’t want Capcom to make them retarded, just curb the nonsense a bit. So you see, we’re on the same vibe.
I agree that Yun needs nerfs but the dive kick nerf is just disgusting. Just make it more punishable on block and leave the angle changes. He literally has no other way of crossing up save for j.mk but that’s stupid hard to do.
I think some better nerfs would be:
More recovery on upkicks so it is more punishable. His upkicks have less recovery than a whiffed hp. srk and that shit flies across the screen.
Ex lunge frame advantage gone obviously.
shoulder has more pushback and can’t crossup.
the health/stun nerfs can stay
palm meter nerf can stay
leave the rest as is.
Alternatively you can tone down the nerfs a bit and buff akuma close to his vanilla status in terms of damage/stun.
WHAT??? Weren’t yun’s dive kicks easy to AA demon on reaction?? Damn, i thought i was just bad for not being able to do that all the time!!!
You wrote so much bs, you basically just want the matchup to be easier for your character, lol!
…besides, we all know that everyone in here can beat you on random select and that you always write bs (demon as a way to go through fireballs as a ryu matchup tip, haha), so hopefully no one will take you seriously
lol, that won’t be yun anymore you just created a low tier character.
if anything he just need some tweaks on his retarded target combo. make it the hurt/hit(im not clear of the term) bigger so we can at least jab into sweep punish. so we can actually start vortexing abit here and there.
make his shoulder more punishable. so that only if they timed it right its safe. just want to avoid people doing c.mp shoulder loop.
fix his command grab that breaks the common sense of doing crouch tech. nerf the startup to at least to yang’s standard. 5frame is retarded. imo somewhere around 8-10frame. which will still be a bit retarded.
leave his dp’s alone. since he can’t fadc.
palm meter gain…stays…
make his c.mp harder to link. so that there’s actually risk of fukin up. coz really 3*cmp into cmk lunge is too much.
make ex lunge no followup…ex lunge into lunge is major annoyance for me.
divekick stays the same? imo isn’t extremely biggest threat for akuma but a big threat for those who doesn’t have dp…so slow it down perhaps. or make it more punishable.
or ignore what i’ve said but make it so that yun actually have some risk involved play instead of just do it and win mode.
That stuff by Laughter would just make Yun horrible. Imo it’s just his retarded tools that need to be addressed. If I had to fix him, it’d be something like:
Drop his stun to 900 (1000 atm)
Make the EX Lunge -1 or -2 on block, which gets safer if he hits with the very tip, say the opponent walked back for a slight moment
Reduce his throw range: 1.3 range 5f grab (or 1.1 7f meterless), which is karable (geez, it works of 2 cr.MP or 3x cr.LP)? Hell, no. Make it 0.95-1.15, and increase the startup to like, 8-10. Makoto’s one is about 0.9 (also karable), just to say, and Fei’s one starts in 14-12.
Add recovery on his lunge whiffs, it’s tough to punish them even when you see them coming and neutral jump to them
Reduce the meter build on palm, like 10 or 15 per palm
Stuff that shouldn’t be changed imo:
His Dragon Kick wakeup: Yun got raped at Evo for trying to get away with that. Maybe I’d add a couple frames off his LK ones, it’s oddly tough to fully punish it
Shoulder Pressure: you can reversal stuff when you block a normal and he cancels it in Shoulder, I think that can stay
I feel that he could still top the charts with such changes.
Btw, what’s your wishlist for Gouki? You think they’ll stop nerfing him or they’ll just drop damage and stun off EX Shoryu and Fireball?
currently. there’s heaps of akuma haters out there cursing/praying for akuma to get hit by nerf pipe.
i am really worried that he’s gonna get nerf to an unplayable character…i mean a character who have to work triple the work to get the job done which is waste of time.
agree on most of the stuff but I think that ex lunge should be 0 or +1. All other versions should be MAD unsafe, like -10 or something, but the ex version is ok. You have to use a bar, it’s not invulnerable in any usefull way and still starts up in 14 frames or something. What’s the point if you have to be at negative frames?
ex cmd throw should be like Yang’s.
Nice to see someone proposing reasonable nerfs, I was losing hope in the Akuma forums after reading Laughter’s reply. Thank god no one agrees with him (had to be expected since he only writes bs)
EX lunge shouldn’t be 0, +1 at point blank IMO because of how far it pushes the opponent into the corner (this can rape characters like Vega). Making it like Bison’s EX PC when it comes to frame advantage would be good, where it only gets frame advantage when it hits at max range.
Yeah, I guess -2 would really hurt him against grapplers…
I suggested the negative advantage because the move already allows for great followup damage (230/350 is no joke if you ask me), getting counterhits off light normals seems a bit too much. I mean, sure one should/could stay put in that scenario, but there’s always the cmd grab :E
You post made me think metallica, but don’t they work differently? I mean, would such change be possible with EX Lunge as it is?
We had like what, 1 top 8 Akuma at EVO and 2 top 32? And it’s not like we have that many elite Akuma players around the world…
You have to use a bar to use EX Lunge, but he gains super so easily with his stupid palm whiffs, so it’s not exactly like Yun players care about that. Most other characters have to manage their bars, Yun doesn’t. So yeah, I agree with you, but only if they fix the amount of ex meter he gets from palms whiffs.
To be honest after this weekend I am more concerned with Fei now than Yun. I was just amazed at how many Fei players can mash their normals and get away with it. Yet if you try to sweep punish it and are just slightly off you eat rekkas. Out of the S-tier Fei seems like the easiest to get reasonably good with.
If you have good reactions you can have a good fei even without being able to do his harder combos…I saw fuudo getting the c.lk > c.lp xx rekka link like 1 time out of five and yet he won. That dude has godlike spacing and reactions and those two alone can carry you very far with fei long.
With Yun, if you wanna go beyond his easy bnb (c.lk s.lp s.lp xx whatever) it actually gets harder than it looks. For me doing c.lk s.lp c.mp s.mp xx whatever or c.mk instead of the last s.mp is way harder than any of akuma’s hit confirms. The link is a 2 framer, which should be easy, but the timing between s.lp > c.mp and c.mp > s.mp is soooo different that i often fuck that up.
Anyways, knowing capcom, Fei is gonna get the nerf stick, too.
(also of course buff the weaker characters more).
