need moar info. also specifics plz. r there ANY good changes (including music change)? im sick of ryu theme
Well im very curious now…Akuma had decent footsies, zoning, vortex but not really the best! The nerfs was not so bad by them selfs but, with the combination of the delayed wake up and the rest of the cast being buffed…dont forget almost all mu’s were 5.5 - 4.5 and 6-4 and vice versa! All i see is trouble vs most of the cast. How are we supposed to fight vega, boxer and hell even blanka now that he can fadc his balls…dont worry guys, i think we should own seth now 
please tell me am wrong guys. What do you think?
Delayed wakeup activated by holding any two buttons when in hard knockdown
That’s what I feared. I saw a lot of ppl asking for it on SRK and eventhub forums for months, to be honest, I don’t like this, because sf4 is all going to be revolving around footsies purely now.
That alone, without the other hardcore nerfs just dropped Akuma to low mid-tier, as every other vortex based character, problem is on the contrary of a lot of other characters, Akuma can’t have the luxury of being unsafe.
I fucking hate Kim1234 for this, and not only because he plays Bison lol ( of course he would want this, Bison’s only weak spot is dealing with Vortex )
Akuma - - - -
Makoto - - -
Sakura - -
All 3 of my characters are vortex or wake up pressure centric, they required crisp execution and had very strict timings, but when you got it down that’s where they shined.
It feels like they are not only copy\pasting SfxTekken characters into our game, but they’re moving the gameplay in that direction as well. As for Akuma, he’s basically way more unsafe than he was, his options are highly limited and most of our EX bars will now be spend on safety instead of damage. It’s now a footsie war, and we just can’t win with footsies alone.
So basically: as for Akuma ( small rundown + my opinion )
-
Delayed wake-up possible,
Shuts down the entire wake up vortex and any kind of wake-up pressure.
Which you know, was pretty much what Akuma was.
I could end the list right there as that alone is enough to drop him to Low-Med tier, but let’s keep going for funsies. -
Cannot FADC srk after first hit
Makes him a lot more risky now with the second lowest stamina in the game, you will have to spend those 2 bars right off the bat if you don’t want to get punished for 50 % of your health. That’s 2 bars that aren’t spent in damage dealing or offensive FADC, or pressure for that matter. -
Losing invincibility frames on HP srk
Harder to reversal jump-ins, cannot count on invisibility anymore to bait any kind of other reversal -
Cannot cancel Ultra 1 from sweep
Means that’s I cannot anti-air or focus soak trap anyone anymore, means that they don’t have to respect the ultra anymore and I am way more vulnerable to get jumped on or focused crumpled. -
Removed unblockables
Right there removes alot of our corner options -
Back jump air hadoken’s recovery nerf
Means that a lot of characters will either be able to teleport/free punish on me, or that fast dashing characters will be able to dash underneath and punish. Also full screen ultra punish will just roll over us now ( E.Ryu,s ultra 1, Rufus Ultra 2, Makoto Ultra 2, ect ect ect ) ect
Basically from what I see there is no way of being safe when applying pressure from now on. The whole character relies on getting a knockdown and applying specific timings, which flatout just does not exist anymore since you can alter your wake up timing. His only options which made him safe on the guessing game also got completely removed, added that the best defensive option select he has also vanished ( Sweep U1 ).
Most of the things that impact Akuma come from the new changes in gameplay instead of pure nerf. But I feel like the demon is going to be just a fraction of a shadow of what he used to be throughout Sf4.
That said I will never drop the character, but I’m very disappointed in the changes. Not only did Capcom not bring any interesting aspect to Akuma’s play, but they just demolished him. They made the squishiest character in the cast completely unsafe and removed the only aspect of the game where he was truly shining. I’m still trying to wrap my brain around that.
Anyway, that’s just my opinion. I may be exaggerating some points, but that sad truth is that they are nerfing every aspect of Akuma, i could have soaked all the nerfs, but the delayed wake-up just killed any fun i would’ve had left with the Character.
I never understood the mechanics of safe on block specials, and worse, moving forward ones. And that’s a big part of my shotos preferences in SF.
But those chars with such moves will be the top tiers soon if the wake up Oki is removed.
We’ll have to confirm damage from footsies with that crMK while his shitty fireball follow up doesn’t combo from a range.
At the same time Cammy far cr mk xx spiral say hello, Dictator cr.MK xx Knee , random Knee, random Psycho, say too bad, Fei random rekka, far HK xx Super, random Chiken Wings, 3 miles Focus, say I don’t care…
I’m curious to see how our gods will handle this.
Anyone heard about Eita lately ?
Edit :
Do you feel like me ? this update (or let’s call it new game instead) just trashed 2 years of setup timing hard work. While defensive chars now have an advantage. Any char that used setup is in the same boat but, they don’t have 850 HP and the stun of a 6 years old baby.
It’s kinda funny, i said pretty much the exact same sentence word for word to a friend yesterday.
I found my style, my brain had all my setups, mixups, mindgames ready to apply on a split second.
Intensive frame research, matchups learning, wake up frame learning, character by characters, reversal data.
None of that matters anymore, unless i want to now spend another 2 years creating setups for both wake up timings and learn the timings of every characters and have twice the different setups accordingly.
And then, most of those setups will get severely punished if the guy wakes up earlyer, or later than i expected.
At this point i’m just asking myself if i’m morally strong enough to start losing to vastly inferior players over and over. I don’t know.
I’m not someone who thrives on winning, but we all know how those changes just make Akuma’s flavor and power vanish.
Not that he was broken in the first place, far from it. he had pretty serious advantages and pretty serious weaknesses.
So i guess we’re left with a bunch of weaknesses now. Meh.
I feel very sour.
It’s even the end of the notion of meaty attacks on wake up.
The guy in charge at Capcom isn’t a player at all or there’s something to back up all this crap, we don’t know yet.
Akuma low mid-tier… I cant even do this forum anymore.
I agree with all of this. Honestly, if they’re implementing delayed wake up they didn’t need to nerf Akuma’s central tools. Delayed wakeup is enough to make him less effective without completely ruining the fun and viability of the character.
I hope some of these changes get reverted. I also hope he gets some improvements to his overall buttons and ground fireball. You can’t just take, take, take and not give anything. It’s lame.
So far fuck USF4. Honestly.
I really feel the same way with you guys…im more ground based style with footsies and zoning,but the kinda always walking forward pressure style, when i get a KD i rush in for as long as i can(100 offline and i really try online). I didnt care about unblockables. I didnt care about messing the set ups. I didnt care about the changes he previously had and i didnt care about the changes he is going to have…but that Delayed Wake Up…were we lacked, the vortex filled in, in terms of balance! Accorting to E Ryu’s buffs, i want to see HEALTH-DAMAGE-STUN-BETTER NORMALS-AND FASTER FB buffs for Akuma! No way that any of them is going to happen, but it will make him more footsie-based character and VIABLE, in this turtling based game they are trying to make!!
Whats the thing with E Ryu? why all the sudden love? he will have everything now! DAMAGE/STUN AND HEALTH! Akuma always receives hate from all directions(Lousy developers and whining players which they refuse to think for a change!!)
Whining or not is the truth…Akuma had low health but solid mix ups to compensate.That was the idea on the first place! That is BALANCE! Nerfed again and again and again in the name of BALANCE…Now with E. Ryu’s buffs it shows that its more character hate than JUST balancing the game! From my point of view…PURE RACISM!
It is time for us too prove Akuma was so much more than a vortex. Less whining more training I say!
Its not whining as much as it’s pointing out that these changes are too harsh. They’re not putting the game out yet so there is plenty of time for them to revert and adjust. Throwing up the white flag and keeping quiet about these changes is probably the worst thing we could do. The whole point of public testing is for people to give feedback and speak on what we like and don’t like.
There isn’t a lot more to Akuma without the vortex for the record. He’s a less damaging ryu with a crappier zoning, less health, and an air fireball + teleport. In other words? Low mid tier at best. The demon flip mix ups and options selects are at the core of why he’s good. I don’t see how Ryu, E.Ryu and Ken won’t be far ahead of Akuma in USF4 if these changes stick without significant buffs in other areas IE c.mk x hadouken being a true block string, raising his health, buffing his damage by at least 10% on most of his moves and giving him back his stun.
… But he’s not… lol.
It’s the core of the character.
Inferior in footsies
Inferior general normals compared to other shotos
Vastly inferior Health
Inferior stun resistance
Very unsafe compared to most characters
Srk and Ex Tatsu that just drop people
Very little active frames
I don’t know, all i saw beside killing the vortex is making our weak arsenal of moves and options even weaker.
A Japanese anime mentality won’t help much when you get bodied in tournaments, lol.
You might strive to be the number one sprinter in the world and have a will of steel. If i shoot both your kneecaps with a double-barreld shotgun, it’s not gonna happen buddy.
The reason Akuma’s damage and stun had been nerfed since Vanilla is precisely because the vortex was discovered toward the end of Vanilla’s time. Since vortex is becoming much less of a factor it stands to reason that Akuma needs that damage and stun back to stand a chance in Ultra.
Exactllllly.
With this OD nerfs they gave him, he needs his damage, stun, and the hitbox/active frame improved.
Right now Capcom is on some “we’re going to give him 5 significant nerfs, but even though we also completely changed the wake up system so it nerfs a huge part of his gameplay, he’ll still be fine” shit and that’s not how it works.
Like nah that’s not how it works. Really surprised if Combofiend isn’t fighting this.
The most messed up part is that people are generally ignorant to Akuma’s gameplay system and probably won’t be knowledgeable enough to point out how bad these nerfs are at testing, or won’t care enough to do so.
We seriously need players like Eita, Infiltration, Tokido, -6 and them to make some noise.
Welcome to the new SSFIV, universal 50/50 on wake up with jump early OS whiff proxi stuff mixed with throw.
Enjoy.
Haha. This has been the case for a long time. I cringe when I hear people critique Akuma.
I still feel Capcom’s overall vision for balancing has been Ok so far - Super and AE both panned out OK despite people’s initial (vocal) protests. I agree that if his signature mix-up style is to be trimmed back due to the new wake-up system, he’s deserving of something in return to level the apple cart for him. Damage and stun make sense. I’ve been arguing for a properly combo-able fs.hk again along with his former menacing redball.
The problem is we’re yet to see Akuma get used in the new version. I’ve watched a stack of test footage just like everybody else and I haven’t seen one Akuma yet. At this stage I’m curious to hear Tokido’s thoughts on the test version. If any Akuma player is going to feel the impact to setups and measured oki, it’s him. He might well be your best yardstick for feedback if setup oriented play is your bag.
can we get someone at the loc tests to ask combofiend to fix akuma and gouken’s musics?
Haven’t posted in the Akuma forums for a while now since it was pretty dead last time I checked, anyway about the changes:
- Biggest individual nerfs to Akuma are obviously the air fireball and sweep > ultra nerfs. Other nerfs are just annoying, specially the dive kick hurtbox nerf.
However what REALLY hurts Akuma are the global changes:
- Delayed wakeup, say Goodbye to our beloved safejump option selects, e.g OS sweep and the opponent delays his wakeup, the jump in will whiff and the OS will comeout while the opponent will probably recover in time to block it and punish.
This is really really bad for Akuma’s vortex, 2 things I have hope for, DF dive kick which remains active for a while so it might cover both normal and delayed wakeups (unfortunately it got nerfed too hurtbox wise -_-) and the other thing will depend on what kind of options the opponent has after using a delayed wakeup, not being able to reversal or backdash for example will help a lot but we still need confirmation on this.
- Red focus, our EX airfireballs pressure will be FUCKED by this crap, at the moment there are very situational punishes for EX air fireball’s like Ryu’s EX DP, but later EVERYONE will have access to a very good punish when having 2 bars, maybe the focus attack will be slow to catch the recovery but I personally doubt that and will probably only happen with very bad focus attacks.
Overall I’m not excited for USFIV at all, not because of Akuma’s changes (he’ll remain a good character but the nerfs were definitely unnecessary, specially considering how the global changes affects him directly in a very big way, will be much harder to be great with though IMO), just as a game overall it just sucks to me so far, it’s like Capcom have been doing exactly the opposite of what most of the fans wanted, I’ll be sticking with Akuma for sure but there’s a good chance I might finally just drop the game for good if USIFV turned out as bad as I think it is right now.
Well i have been watching the Ultra replays and streams…be ready to drop Akuma or the game! He just doent fit in there any more. The new characters (Elena, Rolento, Hugo), their normals/specials are so fast and reach so far out, PLUS FULL ULTRA comboable! And just think that no tech for them has been invented yet. I just dont see how will Akuma fair in ULTRA having clumsy air and ground normals( st. HK,st MP, no active frames low MK and a nerfed sweep). Ibuki was nerfed to hell…but she could be viable. i just dont see it with Akuma! Maybe the only real option is Teleport plus ultra 2,but we saw that even this gets beaten…
I play alot of characters but i really enjoy the game when i use Akuma…sooo the plan is: 1. Check Akuma’s viability! 2. If he isnt viable,change character. 3 If i get bored drop the game! Simple as that! I heard tekken is kinda fun
lol omg prof is following me here too