Sorry I don’t know why I said safe jump I meant set up. I had just been doing the forward throw cammy safe jump before posting and I got mixed up. I still haven’t gotten the hp dp to whiff as I keep trading with it. Also been working on the ryu forward throw setup (DFK portion in particular not cross up palm) for a few hours and I seem to only get whiffs on all of his shoryus. However, if he stands neutral or blocks it goes over his head. That must be a timing issue on my part and I’ll keep working on it.
Although most kens will more than likely use mp dp as a reversal seeing as it has 6 frames of invincibility compared to the hp dp’s 4, I’d still like to have hp dp whiff as well. Could you let me know if this is truly a timing issue on my end or the outcome is incorrect?
Wrong, this is an issue only when anti airing on reaction.
Against wakeup pressure you don’t need more than a couple frame invincibility. The attack have to be meaty to have the best effect on you, and then all you need is 1 invul frame to make it whiff + a 3frames reversal to be sure to hit his recovery. So Ken would be better using his 3 framer than any of his 4 framers with invuls but meaty safe jumpable.
if you’re still in front when a shoto wakes up, you’re doing it wrong and will never beat their DP. there’s no magic, the setup works only because it make autocorrecting fail and DP whiff so you can punish. You’ll stuff Dp sometimes hitting them on the shoulder but that’s very rare from F.throw ver.2012.
if you’re looking for setups that win games for you, yeah, wrong char. Easy timings got removed in 2012.
Otherwise, a df kick sure enough can be done after sweep on shotos and result in a win if the choose to DP it. From f.throw you’re lacking time to get the right range and there’s no easy way to time any idea you can have, thus it’s always like placing a bet on 30% life just for the sake of it. While double dash is still a great tool after F.throw. Tatsu cross up or plain jump HK in the face, empty jump low, jump late fireball are many option that will stuff DP or add mix ups to this double dash setup. They are effective.
It’s all on you to understand the opponent that will eat them or if you better stay away and footsy.
So this thread says AE 2012 specific. Will you guys start a new thread for Ultra or just change the title and keep going?
It is a little hard lookig through these forums and having to check the date on entries or when something gets updated to reflect an updated game.
Anyway, in regards to set ups, I’m assuming we have to adapt to DWU and look out for the “technical” sign, or potentially just make a read based on the opponent’s behavior.
Seems like the best initial approach is to add an 11 frame move into current set ups. Which I think has to be c.lp.
Has anyone tested DWU set ups or seen them in videos? I heard there’s some Eita vids out there.
Setups in ultra will need to revolve around a soft kd and having options for both quickrise and prone. It is possible as I was working on this approach before ultra was announced. In fact it may even be better in ultra with the ex shaku startup buff allowing a combo from a fierce punch.
That’s pretty much what I had figured out as well. Soft knockdowns and resets are going to be better mix up situations since there is better fine control over those situations.
Preferably if I can combo into ex shaku or ex fireball I will over tatsu bnb. The stun on these combos is crazy. However my current ender for tatsu is mp dp. My followup is is jab shaku. If they qr they block the shaku if they stay prone then you can demon flip on them.
Also I’m thinking we can do some nasty things to players who abuse DWU, like tatsu> sweep, jumping forward lp air fireball, rejump behind the opponent.
How on earth is a soft knockdown going to be any better? They can tech or choose not to just like DWU. Unless you’re just comparing the damage/spacing between moves that initiate hard and soft such as a shoryu vs a sweep. I also don’t see how resets are going to be “more viable” now than what they’ve ever been; especially with all of the shit people were given for using them in the past. They aren’t going to be more viable, they are just going to be slightly less shitty in comparison just because Akuma’s real vortex game is essentially dead in the water.
The difference is that DWU is only 11 frames making it near impossible to run a back up setup if they DWU. The amount of frames between quick rise and prone is huge, maybe around 40+ frames? That means you can have a setup for a quick rise and if they do not quick rise you can run another setup. This does work, I have used it before.
For example, fierce punch into ex fireball, immediate heavy demon flip palm cross over. Stand jab (not duck because st jab is a corpse push which you need if they stay prone). Now if they QR’d confirm the st jab into another combo, preferably st fierce>ex fireball. (usually leads to stun). If they lay prone do a crossup air fireball aka inatant air fireball. On characters with poor dp’s a jab demonflip is good in that spot instead of a crossup air fireball.
Oh and I think LoyalSol means “better” than a hard KD in Ultra, not better than Akuma’s classic setups.
He probably did. I’m just kind of annoyed at how now that’s supposed to be Akuma’s saving grace over just playing Ken, Ryu or E. Ryu. I also didn’t realize that DWU was that much shorter than techning a soft, so that’s my bad. It does however make it seem like tatsu > sweep, or sweeping in general now to be a really weak option. I wasn’t planning on completely dropping Akuma in Ultra, but he’s probably going to be a secondary character for a while. Unless I end up absolutely hating Rolento; who actually seems to be built much better for this new neutral oriented, poke, counter-poke game.
Messing around with an ex shakunetsu idea someone posted recently, after cl.hp or a close far.hp>ex shaku you can do cr.mp into j.hk which is a 5f safe jump on quickrise. If they dont quickrise you can do a demon flip kick or instant air fb mixup. Also if they dont quickrise you can whiff a st.lp then do demon flip throw or palm(also safe against 5f reversals). One thing to note is if you do cl.hp>ex shaku it seems youre too close for the air fb or demon flip kick to connect if they dont quickrise though. Might be useless info in a week but just wanted to get the discussion started.
Also if the opponent is using DWU often far.hp(cr.hp for 10 more damage on some characters) into demon flip will probably be standard after a cross up tatsu. Then obviously the max damage option dp remains the same.