I don’t get you man, as I said, that set up, if you do a late dive-kick from it, it makes only MP HP and EX shoryus of Ryu and Ken whiff, but their LP variations beat this set-up, so it’s not really safe.
Also the safe jump on Cammy should work, it worked when I tested it like 10 years ago when 2012 came out xD Maybe try to time your dashes better and the DF after them as well. If done correctly this set-up should work.
Have you guys seen the brazilian final for the 25th anniversary ? Tokido was using a setup that the cammy player has never blocked, in the corner after a sweep, he did demon flip kick and it sometimes landed behind the cammy, sometimes in front. Is that an unblockable, or is that a 50/50 setup ?
no no I did get it. I just know from having doing so many jump over that usually people do a medium or hard srk on wakeup as ken or ryu
and LATE dive kick. ok stupid me.
and yeah I was sure the cammy safe jump worked fine, but it hasn’t been recently… must be me
I checked it and Ganishka is right about LP SRK beating **F Throw > sHK > HKDF Late Kick **(the kick often whiffed on crouching Ryu if I didn’t do it late enough). That’s a huge amount of damage from Ryu if he juggles you with Ultra and/or Super after. I’m a little more nervous about doing that setup against Shotos now.
Also, when I checked it out some time ago, **F Throw > sHK > HKDF Palm Whiff **didn’t cross up all characters, and by that I mean I couldn’t get it to cross up on DeeJay in training room.
Does that setup cross up on most of the cast?
Probably not, I’d assume characters with wide hitboxes won’t be crossed-up, gotta check all the cast to make sure (ain’t that hard, will take about 5-7 minutes, but I’m still lazy to do it lol). Either way I do most of my DF set-ups from sweep now, I don’t even use this HK whiff set-up on anyone lol. For Sagat, Cammy and Fei-Long the old double dash set-up still works, on shotos it’s risky, I’d do it if I would feel adventurous, but the problem is, I never really feel adventurous with Akuma, too easy to lose when you start playing dumb, so easy for others to win when they start playing dumb, no balance in this world I guess ):
[media=youtube]-UyJBrGIq4E[/media]
In a set vs. Ryu @ 6:45, Infiltration makes (I think) exclusive use of sHK setups after f.throw.
Well, if he uses the palm cross up and ryu’s dp doesn’t autocorrect he gets a free demon punish. That’s the only explaination i can come with to explain why they all just block that setup. it’s obvious de kick can be juggled into ultra.
s.HK gives you the spacing where Dive kick doesn’t cross safely and palm will cross.
The reason alot of people block is because if Infiltration does crossover palm its really hard to autocorrect dp because the way akuma goes over Ryu for that particular setup. Its just not really worth the risk to delay dp because of how well he mixes in his divekicks with that setup too.
In one of the later videos in the hong kong footage he uses the same set up against another Ryu (might be the same guy I forget) the dive kick is properly punished with LP DP > ultra iirc
4f safejump off demon flip throw. Cr.mp, small step forward jump in rh. I like this one because it puts you in range for crossup tatsu.
Is this for the corner or is it the Rufus setup?
it’s mid screen unblockable for a Juri standing iirc, but many crouch ways to avoid it…
So what’s the deal with getting thrown so much after a cross over palm? It seems entirely random too (in training at least). If you “mash”, or rather simply hit crouch tech as soon as you land you can sometimes get hit with a reversal, or get thrown. This seems like it’s because you actually did it too soon as they were waking up, yet often if you pause for even a split second later you’ll get thrown. Often, if you “mash” tech (hit it as soon as you land), you’ll tech someone mashing throw. Yet if they delay the throw by a second and you’re mashing tech, you’ll get thrown. So is there even a window that accounts for both scenarios?
TLDR; it seems like mash throw > delay tech, and delay throw > mash tech. Are you just supposed to take the initial risk to see how your oppenent responds?
Well going back to game mechanics what we know ?
[S]any air attack = 4 frames recovery on landing = open to 4 and less frames punish[/S]
[S]throw = 3f startup[/S]
[S]Now teching crounching give you a short window to tech. I duno the exact length of it but let’s say 4/5 frames.[/S]
[S]And stand teching give more time to tech. Let’s say 8+ frames. Advantage of stand tech is also a counter throw for you if the opponent use another attack that’s bigger than 3f startup. It usualy beats crouch attacks then, and is a counter against frame traps.[/S]
[S]Evidences are then : If you get thrown you landed to late, the opponent was ready before you. If the guy is a pro and genius, he can also have good reads on your flips. If it’s a human he probably just mash a little and he will not react very well to a DF kick “late” and DF throw. And any meaty attacks of course.[/S]
It’s a gimmick after all. I really believe that you have to provide a solid basic game to make Gimmicks worth it. Unlike online play for example where the lag make the job itself making gimmick so powerful 
If I’m not mistaken you’ll always be able to tech throws after landing from a normal air attack even though throws are faster than the 4 frame recovery window.
Ho that’s a point I had to clarify, now I see.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV/Game_Systems/Landing_Frames_Trip_Guard
Universal 4 landing frames for all jump (excluding high jumps).
If “empty jump” = you can block and tech on the first frame AND cancel those frames with a normal/special
If “jump in attack” = you can’t block for 2 frames but can tech. And you are stuck here for the full 4 frames.
If this is still the right mechanics, I’ve been wrong for a year about how safe jumps are set up. The 3 framer barrier we can’t safe jumps aren’t because of 4 full landing frames open to the reversal but only 2… and the third is the air meaty one.
I was wondering why we can still safe jumps 4 framers with my wrong understanding with these 4 landing frames. Now with only 3 weak frames if perfect 1f meaty jump attack, that makes sens.
There is two things going on there:
1 - The Ryu player is concentrating on blocking the correct direction so he isn’t trying to break a throw each time.
2 - Delayed dive kick beats throw tech and OS crouch tech for a full combo, so simply attempting to tech in anticipation of a DF palm>throw is a big risk. Good players will concentrate on blocking the mixup and taking a throw or try to break the throw on reaction.
I suppose some of this is just training mode issues that don’t translate into real fights, because I’m in control of what’s going on, and I know where the dummy is going to land each time and what inputs were used on landing, so it’s not hard at all to perform the correct counter. I just didn’t realize that all the opponent had to do was guess correctly, and you’re thrown.
It also seems like you’re assuming that you conditioned the opponent to expect a crossup palm before attempting any dives, because the dives get stuffed rather easily. They aren’t easy to react to, but both the sweep and forward throw dive setups get beaten cleanly if they anticipate it.
Until he has ultra all Ryu’s punish options are high risk low reward.
1 - Wake up DP: Loses to crossover palm for full combo, beats divekicks for marginal damage.
2 - Wake up throw: Beats crossover palm for marginal damage, loses to delayed divekick for full combo.
In a real tourney setting players will generally opt for the low risk options, in this case blocking. Unlike playing online or even in casuals when it’s a tourney or a set there is a consequence to simply betting the round on low percentage options.