i use lk n mk xup tatsu on occasion
from a range, you can cross up with hk tatsu but can’t with lk. The arc isn’t the same.
I was using LK as cross up all this time, and someone advised the other day to start using HK. the difference isn’t obvious at first, but the distance and speed are easier to manage now.
from what I can tell, HK tatsu can be applied later in the arc to cross up, compared to LK tatsu
So after a lot of research I stepped up my vortex game but I still have issues connecting crossup tatsu after anything but close and far standing tatsu sweep. What are the other setups.
Also I find myself not abusing the demon flip palm whiff to low that often because I don’t know any safe jumps or good setups for it other than the ones listed here. Any tips?
I swear to god I’ve asked that like a hundred times. It’s impossible to find on the akuma thread nowadays and the funny part is its just as important as hit character specific stuff just because for the vortex to work you need to convince your opponent to never reversal and these are the ways to do it.
It’s also important to focus on stuff other than the vortex like neutral game, footsies, frame traps etc. Also stuff on people who the vortex isn’t as efficient on like ryu and ken because they have 3 frame dp’s and can’t be tatsu swept.
Please somebody answer this mans question.
It’s because most of your normal vortex requires manual timing. After a sweep (The most common KD) there isn’t enough time to whiff anything and still safe jump so it is all about your own ability to time it.
You just have to hit the lab and go for it.
You’ll find playing this character that there are an awful lot of situations where there aren’t any nice easy set ups and even some set ups that even after timing it with normals still require you to hit the button at the correct time.
you still can land a cross up tatsu after a forward throw setup…double dash slight step forward cross up tatsu works well… after a ex fireball combo ( jab jab strong ex fireball) do an immediate cross up tatsu…
a good set up to do after a forward throw is dash once slight step forward high kick demon flip dive kick, if your opponent reversals it should whiff, … obviously you cant safe jump a 3 f reversal but this works well against shotos itll make srks whiff most of the time… this is the best universal forward throw setup
Hello,
First of all, please forgive my approximate english, as I’m french =)
I’ve been searching for hours a setup to kill Ken’s DP after a forward throw, and none that I’ve found on this website and on others are reliable. Whenever Ken delays properly his MP shoryu, he can beat any setups like “HK - HK DF Kick” or “Dash - Dash - MK DF Kick” whether the kick is delayed or not.
Watching the match between Infiltration and Chris @ the Evo2012, we can see that Infiltration doesn’t do ANY of the setups I’ve found after the throw
[media=youtube]WbkOA5LgJM0[/media]
and he prefers tu do the good old DF Palm Whiff to change sides.
I think that means there is NO reliable setup of DF Kick against Ken (and probably Sagat.)
Well, maybe i’m mistaken… I don’t know.
Can somebody help me on this please ?
Oh alright fair enough but is there just a rough timing for safe jumps after palm and sweep? For sweep I use walk a step jump mk and instant jump then at the highest point of his jump are dive kick or occasionally walk the slightest bit jump divekick. For palm I have no clue what to even try and for throw I think I have one but I haven’t confirmed yet.
Thank you very much btw.
So after putting some time into it, here’s what I’ve come up with as far as “universal safe jumps” off UTKDs
Sweep - Instant Jump, CMND Dive Kick
Sweep - Walk Forward, Jump Attack (manual timing)
F.Throw - Characters with 7 frame reversals, Cammy, and Dhalsim - Dash x2, j.HK (this works on Cammy and Dhalsim even though they have 5 frame reversals because they wake up 2 frames slower)
F.Throw - **Everyone Else **- Dash, HKDF Dive Kick as low to the ground as possible
[LIST]
[]I’ve had pretty good success timing this to beat 5 frame reversals, beating 4 frame reversals is noticeably harder. I also have not seen this posted anywhere before so maybe some of the more experienced Akuma users could look into it further?
[/LIST]
F.Throw - sHK, HKDF Early Dive Kick -
[LIST]
[]This is a specialized option that isn’t a safe jump, but beats SRKs and Flash Kick. It beats some other stuff but I don’t know what exactly
[/LIST]
B.Throw - N/A
DF Throw - cMP, HKDF Early Dive Kick
[LIST]
[*]Not a safe jump, but a specialized option that beats just about everything IIRC
[/LIST]
I also like to subdivide Tokido’s 3 zone sweep 50/50’s into their own category because the principle is the same for the entire cast. Not all the options are safe, but that’s not really the idea when you go for it anyway.
As far as overall vortex philosophy goes, I started having much greater success by using a sliding scale of safety. Chances are, if you go for a DF throw or something the first time you knock someone down, you’re going to get uppercutted. It’s much better to start with the extra safe stuff like meaty air fireballs, or guaranteed safe jumps OR my options to get their reversals to whiff (F.Throw > sHK > HKDF Dive Kick for example). Then, once they hesitate to uppercut, you can start using other options.
One thing to keep in mind is different characters have different wake up times and some characters have neutral invincibility which may force you to delay your jump timing.
There are setups against them but none of them are 100% safe.
For instance against Ken you can Dash x2 MK instant divekick. This will beat reversal MP DP and HP DP but loses to lp. You can also dash x 2 tatsu but this loses to delayed DPs.
Dash 1x small step forward will stuff some reversals but also gives you good spacing to either cross up Ken with whiff palm or to go for a throw. I think it’s probably his most reliable setup against Ken.
Infiltration isn’t that vortex heavy anyway, but there are options against Ken, just not as many as characters without 3 frame reversals.
F. Throw sHK, HKDF Delayed Dive Kick, stuffs Cammy’s DP.
If anyone can help test this, let me know please.
I’ve found that after a combo ending in HP SRK, doing an immediate HKDF Palm Whiff will make just about every early reversal whiff. Is this a dumb thing to do for reasons I’m not aware of?
Also, I read that after a combo ending with a LP SRK there is some sort of air fireball set up? I can’t find any info about what that is though…
I have a quick question.
Every-time i whiff the demon palm and then go into a LP i seem to get thrown. Why is this happening when i always see people hitting on streams , such as Tokido and Infiltration ? Am i mistiming it or what ?
I know you can crouch tech after the Palm but that means you do a LK which is a 4 frame move, so it’s not as good.
it has to do with the timing. If you’re doing a properly meaty cLP it will beat wake up throw every time (hitting the throw in it’s start up frames). You can also crouch tech a cLK to start a block string to get some extra anti-throw coverage. If you’re attempting a meaty poke after a DF Palm Whiff, it’s probably late which is why you get thrown.
However if you’re just doing random demon flip palm whiffs on a standing or crouching opponent, it will lose to throw every time if they do it; The throw is 3 frames and you have 4 frames of recovery after you hit the ground, plus the start up of whatever button you press.
after a Sweep point blank against Cammy, delayed MK DF kick stuff all Spikes except EX. But loose if no reversal an no standing block.
The delay is like trying to whiff a cr:lp: but too early and nothing come out, then instant DF.
Easy. You are playing dumb people with grab reflexes they are playing people with a brain. Use anti grab mashing set ups.
Best anti grab mashing setup? Maximum delayed demonflip kick. (can’t be done online BTW) The grab spazzy player will try to grab when they expect you to land so they eat the dive kick.