Shorty check my dougie like she Patty Mayonnaise
Hmmm… that is a good question.
Let me speculate a bit…
It could be because if you teleport away from Akuma when he’s doing the cross-up tatsu (away from the direction he came from), it can be punished with far HK BnB. The Akuma who just did the x-up tatsu just keeps walking towards the teleporter Akuma and does HK and it catches teleport (PPP) recovery.
I’ve also noticed that sometimes a reversal teleport will get auto-flipped when trying to escape an x-up tatsu, and sometimes it won’t due to slight timing nuances.
If you teleport towards Akuma and he does a regular jump-in (non tatsu), I’m pretty sure it can be punished by the jumpin Akuma walking back towards the teleporter and using HK, but I’m not positive on that one.
I know I have no right to ask this after my post, but
WTF?
hmmm i’m gonna have to test this tonight.
exactly. welcome to “Lately”!
Sorry for my pessimistic attitude, but things like “the vortex” aren’t really “secrets” in my mind…Instead I thought everyone knew about that, as it’s the basis around Akuma’s strategy.
Or…Shaku frame trap? That’s not a frame trap at all, a frame trap is where you use frame advantage to have a tiny bit of gap to setup a counter hit attack…who’s going to press a button when they see a shaku when they know they need to block? Who in their right mind is going to say “Akuma is full screen right now, he just threw a shaku, i’m gonna block and jab!” It’s not a frametrap at all.
Tatsu crossover, land, hp shoryu? It’s not as if this is a “secret”…and it’s not like we don’t know why sweep is better then shoryu…
I guess I’m just disappointed by the quality of knowledge in this thread.
I can’t speak to the other points, but I can say when someone is in block stun and they see you ex demonflip, 7/10 they will spam SRK to reversal you…and then they get stuffed.
Mickey D
What’re the odds 30 people are gonna individually know something that hasn’t already been discovered and detailed already on the forum? With users like Muken around we get tactics and tricks considered useful showing up in all threads without needing a secrets thread to hear about them.
You can be constructive if you feel we could all be more innovative.
I guess there’s something that came to mind which others may not know is that when you use the neutral jump and descending air fireball; you can space it specificly (can’t pin-point it off my head) to throw a ground fireball as soon as the air fireball disappears from being blocked.
With the right distance, the two fireballs will string together and you get a double chip (or combo) off the relatively safe air fireball. This can help you get extra chip or bother the opponent from the pretty standard safe use of the air fireball. It’s at least something when they’ve blocked that air fireball and you don’t have the stones to move in for a cr.MK / overhead or Demon Flip advancing game.
Using the EX fireball to string gets you a 3 hit chip and can help with putting the opponent down without necessarily extending your risk too greatly.
That’s not something I found myself, that’s something I remember you once pointing out some time ago and took into my game ever since. What else could I contribute?
If you have more points or better ways of thinking about this which could get some more idea’s rolling, maybe we could take the thread where you want it to go.
Well I sorta answered my own question.
First off if the teleport is getting autoflipped, that is a mistake on the attacker’s part, you are tatsuing from too close. If the tele is getting autoflipped that means a DP would have been autoflipped also, and that’s bad.
About the teleports, I was screwing around with it in training mode and apart from the obvious free ultra you get on a teleport, I wanted to see what was free if you had no ultra.
It turns out that the PPP teleport backwards goes the same distance as the HK demon flip, so if you do an ambiguous jumping MK as your option off the sweep and option select a HK demon flip into it, you can get a free palm strike or demon grab if they teleport, and if they don’t you can continue your combo. Not too hard. Demon flip palm and grab both also set up untechable situations with tons of options like TK fireball setups.
If they PPP teleport back and you chose xup tatsu, you can walk up and RH but you are too far to B&B. It is best to walk up and sweep them again in this situation, now they are that much closer to the corner and in the same situation as before, well except for having less life.
If they PPP teleport back and you chose demon flip grab/kick, you can also option select a HK demon flip into your first demon flip and if it misses, you’ll automatically do another and get a free punish on the teleport.
So basically no matter what you chose to do other than empty jump short, if they choose to teleport back away from you, there’s an automatic option select punishment waiting that will corner them in an untechable knockdown.
If they choose to teleport toward you instead, then you can catch them with a reverse of the above, option select a HK demon flip in the other direction into your crossup tatsu or MK. Or if you chose a frontal jump or a demon flip you can just walk back and sweep them again.
Anyway hope this helps someone since I just figured it out myself and haven’t really had a chance to try it in practice yet, but it seems to work like a charm. Maybe someone else can see what kind of mileage they can get out of it in this mirror. I’ve noticed that japanese always option select something into all of their jumpins(usually sweeps in case the person backdashes) and I think too many people don’t use this aspect of the engine enough, I know I often forget.
One thing you can do that’s similar to this, if you want to put on a big chunk of chip, is air fireball then the moment it’s blocked you can chunk an EX shaku. The blockstun from the air fireball combined with the quick recovery of EX shaku means that if timed correctly, if they jump over the EX, you’ll recover in time to DP or if they vertical jump you can kara ultra.
Of course don’t do this to people that can easily just ultra or something through the fireball but against others it forces them to eat the chip. Then once they block the EX shaku, you can immediately do another fierce FB or EX shaku and that puts them in the same position, if they jump in you can uppercut and if they jump up you can kara ultra.
At that point they are pushed back too far and any further fireballs are risking jumpin but that’s a pretty good bunch of chip if they block and if they take the bait and jump over one then it’s a dp to the face.
Thats interesting that you brought that point up…when I was reading the beginning of the speal (about the neutral jump hadou part) I was thinking to myself “Great, another thing that I know that someone is trying to tell me”…but then I got to the point where you said “it’s something that you pointed out, and I’ve taken it into my game ever since” I understood completely your point. I sometimes forget how “advanced” strategy is difficult to come by now days.
The thing is that I’ve been playing Akuma for a little under a week now, and I was thinking of checking out the Akuma thread for some discussion for thought provoking purposes. Maybe by checking out the akuma forum, I could start thinking of other stuff I normally didn’t think about. When I came to the thread I was unfortunately dissappointed, but I shouldn’t blame that on the players who try to contribute good stuff…
My contribution: Toy around with setups after the combo: s.hp, tatsu, land, jab shoryu, sadc, red fireball. I understand now why this combo is used so often, and it’s because it sets you up for a number of great mixups…
- walk forward one step, jump over with tatsu (crossup).
- walk forward one step, j.hk, land, s.hp (vortex 101)
- Mk demon flip, throw (once again more vortex)
- Hk demon flip, dive kick (beats reversal uppercut’s)
- hk demon flip, palm strike (whiffs), land behind opponent (immediate crossup)
Anyways test out the mixups and see exactly why the combo is so good. The setups are amazing.
halcyonryu does a hk kara demon beat out neutral jumpers? I was under the impression a good normal from a neutral jump would beat out demon almost every time.
It really depends on your timing and distance, but when people neutral jump a fireball I’ve had pretty good success with it. You just have to activate the demon right as the opponents jump attack is coming out.
Could one leave out the FADC, red fireball and just use jab Goshoryu and achieve the same set up with that combo?
I believe so, the recovery of both the LP Shoryu ender and the Red fireball extension offer the extra time where a safe jump is possible against a quick rise which cannot be achieved from an HP Shoryu ender.
I think the point is it’s the staple that everyone does, and he’s explaining that it happens to set up Akuma’s jump-in Vortex against the quick rise (or otherwise pause if you like, I guess) afterwards. It’s safe to attempt when they don’t quick rise although you lose your positioning on them. If you’re doing this jump-in mixup against the quick rise, it gives you what you’d normally opt for the sweep ender knockdown for with all the benefits of the extra damage and such. I’ll concentrate on that to work it into my game following the combo.
I like to use an EX red fireball ender myself sometimes because of the extra damage and stun it has, with your last point in mind, maybe some could try to experiment to see if that recovery bonus can be exploited for anything extra.
I didn’t delve into it much. Was looking at ways to go for a cheap stun at some point. Where I’d land a j.HK and follow into a combo to the EX Red fireball finisher, it’d do 800 stun. The recovery is right do immediately dash forwards and LK Flip and that sets up the timing for a Demon Flip throw coming in deep on the quick rise. If that hits it’s a 1,000 stun total.
I wonder what could be possible from it.
Contribution:
Tokido move to keep in mind. He likes to use cr.MP immediately linked to the double roundhouse as his move to beat throw techs when he’s in a tick throw position. When he gets to the obvious moves like a double crouch jab then a little inch forward he’ll use the cr.MP to score a counter hit where the roundhouses will link into a heavy combo. Saw him use this in a mirror match, it’s probably best reserved against the characters who cannot duck the second hit, where it becomes safe and abuseable.
Nice contribution! Mind throwing that video real quick so I can see it!?
Counting stun for the roundhouse loop
Jump Forward > Low short > Low Jab > Far Jab > Far Roundhouse > Far Jab > Far Roundhouse > Far Jab > Far Roundhouse > Far Jab > Sweep.
305 Damage
773 Stun
186 Meter
The roundhouse link is very consistent with plinking. The likely problem seems to be the timing for jab. It seems that being timely with the jab is necessary for a consistent combo. If the jab timing is sloppy (even if it links), sometimes the last roundhouse or the last jab will whiff.
Follow-up:
Air Tatsu > Jab Shoryuken FADC Fierce Shakunetsu.
330 Damage
410 Stun
- 332 Meter
That would add up to 1183 stun, which would stun Sagat but just fall short of stunning Zangief. For him, it should be worth it to do EX Red Fireball because the combo after dizzy would start at 70% strength.
A vid of the cr.MP tech counter, yeah?
This vid is a nice demonstration of it with Tokido in a mirror match. It shows up first around 50 seconds in:
[media=youtube]SYhxtZ6h6N0[/media]
If you land it with counter cr.MP, far HK, cr.MP, LK Tatsu, Hp Shoryu; then that is worth almost 420 damage plain.
crossup tatsu stand jab crossup tatsu again is win.