Watching Tokido is just a guideline, a very good one at that since he is beastly at frame trapping people.
I think what you’re lacking is adapting to your opponent quickly, I don’t think you can learn this by doing any reading or watching videos, just by experience and you have to be super focused in a match. I find myself often not thinking much about the opponent when playing and pay more attention to what I’m doing, I guess that’s one of the main reasons I don’t adjust my game quickly.
Maybe going into a match more focused and have ready answers to every response your opponent does will give you better answers, for example in a match against an opponent during your first block string, jab him twice or use cr.mp then don’t do anything but walk back, see what he did and try to punish that the next time you’re pressuring him with another block string that you adjusted depending on what your opponent did.
Understanding what though? You understand you want to blow up a throw tech. After that it’s just a guessing game where you need to understand your opponents tendencies more than the actual mechanics of the frame trap.
I could post 3 separate frame traps all designed to beat one of your opponents options, but if you don’t have a good read on them they could all still fail.
You just need to feel the opponent out. Even Tokido doesn’t open people up endlessly. Tons of his throws and frame traps are just teched or blocked. This may just be an issue of getting a read on your opponent more than anything else.
Toxy does well at cracking people open with frame traps - but notice he mixes in an HP dp/EX tatsu now and then to keep the bastards honest. He’ll also do your usual tic throw attempts to condition teching so the aforementioned becomes far more effective. HP dp backed with a couple of stocks seems to be his favourite and he’ll honestly force you into a 50/50 situation where you’re forced to guess. He used this a lot at BAM.
If you see people mashing out normals during your attempts to delay another c.lp or c.mp, try walking back a little further and instead whiff punishing. If you’re feeling ballsy, fs.hk can be effective also, though you kind of need opponents with chunky crouching hurtboxes for it to be useful.
EX tatsu isn’t a waste of meter if you connect it (plus its safe if blocked) and you gain a bit of corner carry which you can chase quickly with an HP flip palm whiff for good positioning.
Cammy and Ryu have more active frames and reach on their useful normals, so its comparatively easier to land counterhits with those characters. Fundamentally the approach is the same, but like you said Akuma requires a little more precision.
I find it difficult to consistently frame trap people who are accustomed to my playstyle. Its just the way the cookie crumbles for folks like you and I with smaller local player-bases. Its also kind of obvious when an Akuma (or any character for that matter) is poking around for a frame trap and in many cases its far better for the opponent to just plain block and not even risk teching or even delay teching. Why? I’d rather eat a throw than cop the stun and damage from a counter-hit fuelled combo ending into a decent setup position for my opponent.
Another method I find effective when people refuse to be baited by any form of frame trap attempts is to stagger a couple of c.mp/lps up close and then fire away with a lp flip and grab 'em. I find this effective provided I DON’T cancel into the flip. Its easier for people to react to the expected momentum of pokes and prods cancelled into something, but if you stagger the flip it can catch them off guard. Obviously this entails a risk, but I find it gives me good mileage.
Keep in mind that even if all your pokes and prods are going blocked, you’re still pressing the advantage AND you’re gaining meter. You may not be busting their defence open but at least you’re gaining something usable in the process.
As for retards who get away with mashing out an unplanned flurry of hail mary c.lps and c.lks (and god knows what else - how about a random dp? A neutral jump? An Ultra?) while you’re trying to apply calculated attempts to frame trap . . . that’s Street Fighter IV. You just plain have to pack away those toys when dealing with these play styles as its just far too risky for you as an Akuma player to employ those techniques. Frame trapping only really works if your opponent isn’t a complete idiot who churns 720s and presses every button, including Start, Select, Home, your neighbours Windows key and your car alarm button while you’re poking away.
Is it possible to perform a meaty HK safe jump consistently after sweep ?
I’m training against Sagat TU at the moment to start with an easy one. But 70% I fail the meaty and whiff, 30% I’m too late and eat the reversal.
I’m safe at 70% to reversals but will lose to these throw mashers you know, so I need to find a way to land that meaty.
But even if we talk about these tactics every day, maybe it’s something out of reach for me and a lot of others.
After all regular safe jumps have to be used on reversal mashers, while meaty jump ins are more against wake up throw mashers ??
And only the masters can cover all the option with the meaty safe jump ?
I’m wondering. But I need some infos on this to adjust my training and avoid wasting time on something I’ll never get down before my 6th year…
Regular safejumps = Meaty jump-ins , unless you’re safejumping a very very slow reversal so that it wouldn’t be meaty anymore.
I have no idea what you mean by being safe from both wakeup reversals and throw mashers, if you performed the safejump properly (i.e didn’t jump too early or pressed the hk too late in the air for it to get active, Sagat’s wakeup timing can mess up your timing):
if the opponent did a wakeup reversal > You’ll block it
If he didn’t do a reversal > He’ll be in block/hit stun
There’s no time for him to grab you with a throw, if he’s mashing throw while you’re in the air you’ll get a free combo. Throw mashers are an issues when you’re going for stuff like empty jumps into cr.lk, if you’re eating a throw while you’re jumping in on your opponent with an attack, it means you mistimed it,
Yeah I know that stuff. The point is “how to time it right”. Do you all land your meaty jump ins (at least after sweep) regulary, without whiff or is it still something hard to be consistent with at higher level ?
I think I spent 2 hours trying to record a sweep and meaty jump on Sagat, and succeeded like 10 times out of 80. Hk or Mk same results, a lil bit better with Mk.
It’s not like I have 2 seconds to place this meaty, it’s harder than a 1f link to me. I usually jump too early and just whiff, or maybe I’m doing the Hk/Mk to high ? low ? I don’t know. I always try to land my jump ins as deep as I can. but damn those 3 actives frames are hard to land.
Safejumps that require manual timing aren’t easy, it’s not uncommon for even Pros to mistime those, e.g watch this recent match for Infiltration vs Momi at dream hack and how he ate a few flame kicks because he mistimed his DF safejumps after sweeps: www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJjjMSA-6Y4
Excluding abnormal wakeup timings, after sweep > instant command dive kick as fast as possible is my favorite because it relies more on execution than manually timing the setup, plus it’s a 4f reversal safejump which is awesome, it’s obviously not effective from far ranges though unfortunately.
For j.hk safejumps after sweep or ex fireball, I just watch Akuma take a tiny step forward then jump-in, I don’t think there’s any real trick to it so it would be easier, there’s no time to whiff anything, just get the timing/feeling right by practice/experience.
Yeah I try to work with this step forward before jump but for close sweep it only let me do a cross up mk, not so ambiguous. I tryed to wait for the stand stance then jump but that is too much frames it seems and step back seems to be too long too.
I had good success with instant command dive, but find it harder to use with the OS sweep and Throw tech + confirm. And it whiff on Sagat wake up, so I need to time it anyway.
Maybe a matter of training though.
Good to know that this tactic is not that easy. I don’t have to feel bad for this.
That will rarely ever happen vs semi decent players though, once you’re in block stun from a jump-in you pretty much automatically go into crouch block mode lol.
I can see the damage opportunity option, but this isn’t Vanilla Akuma anymore where a couple of combos will stun your opponent, making use of the cr.lp, s.hp hitconfirm is vital IMO now as an Akuma player to have any hope of stunning your opponent without him being a couple of pixels away from losing the round.
Update, I found it on Sagat.
just after the sweep recovery, stick on neutral and as the first of Akuma standing frame I jump HK.
Another way is to use Akuma’s foreground hand, when its back on his chest after the sweep, you can jump. Don’t try to predict it, react to it and you should get your mark.
You know you go ta point here I should use lp s.hp a lot more giving frame traps and better damage.
I’m struggling to perform hitconfirmable frame traps with lows and the push back.
I actually time it by pressing down+HK once again in a slow manner. My hands already in position from doing a sweep, so I just press the buttons again very slowly and go into my jump. It took a while to get the timing down, but it’s really just finding whatever works for you.
And I use this safe jump 9/10 times versus command dive kick because #1 I need the practice and #2 I can option select to catch their escape options and invincible reversals. I only use command dive kick when I’m online and it’s lagging.
Right, I tried to tap a HK too to kill those frames. I’m just too young in exercise to do it now. I will practice.
The rope is another good visual cue after the sweep animation it fall down on the leg and it seems that the perfect time is when the rope appear under the leg. Still hard to avoid to anticipate the jump.
Any tips on how to time ways to catch crouch tech by backing up and doing sweep or hk? I’ve seen this done but I’m not very good at it. If I know they are mashing crouch tech hard I’ll try to back up a little and try to do a hk maybe half a second later but most of the time I end up getting stuffed, especially if they have long reaching cr.lk like Guy or Chun. Do it too late and they block. Trying to do a small step back and sweep but not much success there either. I’m guessing this works well on specific characters. Another thing I’ve been messing with is doing a small shuffle if I know they will tech. Like do 2 jabs, back up a little walk up and grab and it normally works a lot.
As for manual safejumps you guys were talking about above, they are really hard. Especially for me because I tend to forget who has normal wakeups and who doesn’t, trying to autopilot on Cammy is a really bad idea. Anyway I sort of practiced them just by setting the dummy to mash the reversal dp and just sweep them/attempt to safejump. More time efficient than setting the dummy to akuma and recording the safejump attempt every single time.