Delayed SRK > x-up tatsu, I learned that the hard way after eating a couple of delayed SRKs FADC Ultra to lose the match. Pretty sure cr.mk will avoid x-up tatsu as well. People who fall for the x-up tatsu all the time usually have no clue about the Akuma matchup and how to deal with his tricks.
Early meaty jump-ins should beat delayed SRK attempts and wakeup cr.mk though.
Im really having trouble with the three cr.lp link. Help please.
The only real solution to that problem is practice. You can chain the first two then you need to link the last hit. So bam, bam, tiny wait, bam.
Thanks Shin will do on the practice.
Yeah, I know. But like I said, most online players are busy mashing LP+LK when you attempt the x-up tatsu because they know that online lag will make you whiff it. It’s rare you find someone good enough (or scrubby enough) to know how to delay SRK to beat it.
Newer Akuma, so i’m gonna have a lot of questions as I try to flesh out my Akuma.
I just played AE offline for the first time last night, completely different beast. Actually felt like I could keep up.
So does Akuma have any meaty attacks and what are guys using for crossups? Ive taken to using J.Lk.
j.lk/j.mk/air tatsu are the most common, j.hk also works as crossup but its more used in the corner and really hard to time (situation specific), as well as demon flip dive kick crossup (usually used in the corner). Those are pretty much actual crossups. Then you have fake crossups like whiffed palm, empty jump into os low, j.lk in the corner (deadly good crossup since it crosses up if it hits and doesn’t if its blocked).
I think thats about it for crossups. Don’t have a full list of meaties though.
could someone please explain why i cant safe jump guys ex tatsu without empty jumping
It’s a 4f reversal, it’s impossible to safejump after forward throw x 2dashes. If you’re trying to safejump via other setups and still aren’t successful, it’s probably because 4f reversals are the hardest to safejump in the game because you have to be literally frame perfect, too slow the jump-in attack will whiff and if done too late you’ll eat the reversal.
thanks a ton that explains it all, so empty jump slight delay crouch tech is common against
4 framers?
Yeah it’s quite common, but there are some characters in the game who have 4 frame reversals but wakeup a frame slower after forward throw, you can safejump those by doing the normal x2dashes > j.hk (just don’t press hk too early), like Dudley and his EX jet upper.
Here’s a quote of a post I made not too long ago about 4f safejumps:
Of course all of the forward throw setups are gone or need different timings if Capcom added the 2 extra recovery frames in AE V2012.
thanks again… capcom better not fuck this up for us>:(
About *Forward throw (corner) 1x dash > whiff close st.mp > instant j.mk *setup, we should be able to easily substitute st.MP with cr.MP in v2012.
cr.MP is 15 frames (st.MP 17), so it would make for the throw nerf. This should also become the new unblockable on Ibuki, right?
We should really start making a list of this stuff soon…
Yeah I already mentioned that in the Akuma setup thread IIRC (also unblockable Vs Ryu/Ken/Mak whiffing cr.mk+cr.lk (total 34f) should work if spacing won’t be an issue since we’re not dashing).
I honestly am not worried about corner setups at all with the new forward throw, for those we just have to use different timing setups and it’s pretty exciting figuring new stuff. It’s the midscreen forward throw that’s a real pain because we are limited by not having enough time there to actually try out many different setups, still hoping we come up with something smart.
I’m still waiting for things to be 100% official just in-case I don’t waste time trying stuff out in training mode vs everyone and then things turn out differently in AE V2012. Still though can’t help but at least run things through my head about how certain things will be in AE V2012, i.e:
Vs Cammy the forward throw nerf will actually be a good thing, she already wakes up 2 frames slower so x2 dashes j.hk should work vs her now without any manual timing required to safejump her 5f canon spike.
Same thing applies Vs Sim and Rose, they both also wake up 2 frames slower and have EX reversals with 5f and 6f timings, x2dashes setup j.hk still should work without issues vs 'em and it’ll be even easier to get the timing right, if their wakeup time was normal x2dashes j.hk would have lost to their reversals in AE V2012.
Ibuki wakes up a frame faster after forward throw so we already can’t safejump her EX upkick after x2dashes j.hk (we can easily fully stuff it with dive kicks though), add 2 recovery frames and Ibuki would wakeup 3 frames faster in V2012 than normal characters in SSFIV lol.
Some characters wakeup a frame slower but x2 dashes j.hk would still not safejump 'em because they have 4-5 frame reversals, that’s still not slow enough to safejump with the added recovery frames (i.e Dudley, Sagat, Seth & Hawk)
…etc
Oh I’m sorry, totally forgot about it. Btw far MP, cr.MP should work too (18+15) against Ibuki. Then there’s cl.LK, cr.MK (13+20), and Throw > cr.HK (32f) is just 1 frame earlier.
What’s gonna replace unblockable on Ryu/E.Ryu/Ken/Akuma/Mak? We know the gap has to be 34 frames, but lacking a 16f total move, we pretty much cannot dash. These are the ones I found anyway:
cr.MK, cr.LK (20+14) seems the most reliable one - we cannot throw that far for this to work
Far MK, cr.LP (23+11) - provided we are far enough for the MK not to be close, otherwise we can use the following
Close MK, cr.LK (20+14) - works too when close, though we can still use the first one (cr.MK, cr.LK)
Spacing should be an issue only against these chars since through 2x dash we could close the gap. Basically I’d expect max range unblockable to be gone since we can’t get behind them from that far.
Edit: damn Capcom and their grandfathers! far st.HK was 34 frames in vanilla! Give me that back!
I envy you man, I really lack the excitement of scrapping all our previous stuff and getting into the lab lol.
Actually it’s not much of a concern to me, I only learned the stuff Tokido used most, still lack too much stuff. To a tourney player though it just sucks.
I’ve been doing exactly the same, perhaps we could start a list? Among the stuff I came up with:
Couldn’t the nerf actually help against Bison? I mean, we couldn’t really do throw, 2x dash j.HK OS U1, because it’d activate too early and run out of frame invincibility. With 2 more frames shouldn’t that be closer to the gap we needed?
Is Gouken’s wakeup standard? We can still safejump his 7f EX Tatsu. Was wondering if the +2 frames could be of help with palm OS U2 against his EX Flip wakeup (25f invincibility)
Same for Makoto, Fukiage starts in 8 frames, so setup is okay. Her EX karakusa om the other hand has armor and starts in 5, is she gonna grab us on the landing, right?
Speaking of lists, we should really make one with wakeup times, or at the very least I missed it. Remember a pic posted by you iirc, but it didn’t cover every character’s wakeup…
I only play Akuma casually, he’s never going to be my main, but something that has always bothered me:
How do you do the sweep for untechable knockdown after crossup tatsu or lk tatsu? I’ve only gotten it to juggle for the untechable completely at random.
This is just a random question, but is/would you consider Akuma to be a demon?
In mirror matches, how do i punish the other akuma’s teleports on wake up? Obviously i can bait it out by jumping back but i never know what direction he’s teleporting and he usually only teleports when i jump in on his wake up. I tried OS tatsu but it’s not fast enough to catch the teleport like Ryu can. I can throw a slow hado to catch him but it’s really crappy damage for something i KNOW is coming. Demon of course also works but that’s only when I have ultra meter. Anything else? Maybe HK DF the way JR finished out Tokido in 2010 Evo? That’s the only thing i can think of…
For whiffing stuff to time setups I usually try to minimize the # of normal attacks as much as possible and use normals that are plinkable (i.e not jab), also for whatever reason I have higher success rate with crouched normals lol.
Hope it helps vs Bison, I know it’ll make my life easier because I can never properly OS U1 and beat Bison’s EX PC lol, we can check an OS U1 setup vs Cammy’s wakeup and try it vs Bison, should give us an idea.
Gouken wakes up a frame slower after forward throw, but normal time after sweep/DF palm & throw.
We’re lucky that we can break armor moves like Mak’s 5f EX command grab with DF palm, I’ve done some research about throws that are hit invincible and from what I understood it seems like grabs that have a startup of 1 to 5 frames + enough hit invincibility are impossible to safejump normally (just like 3f SRKs), here’s a post that I’ve made about it:
Here’s the wakeup times picture you were talking about:
I’ve done that in SSFIV so there could be some changes in AE (Adon’s wakeup got fixed, I doubt there are other changes to be honest). Also, I didn’t check the data for the 4 new characters (E.Ryu, Oni, Yun & Yang).
In SSFIV I actually checked the wakeup time for all the characters after the knockdowns mentioned in the picture, blank fields and anything not listed is considered to wakeup “Normally” (i.e Ryu’s wakeup time).
Stupid Blanka always wakes up 2 frames slower EXCEPT after forward throw, just our luck lol.
Wait, so does that mean we actually CAN still safejump cammy and deejay after the patch hits? Heh, if true that’s useful to know especially for cammy. I didn’t know shit was that specific though, as in depending on the type of KD.
OS tatsu should be fast enough to catch it… I’d be surprised if it’s not (haven’t played in forever) but even if it is, it’s not that much damage. If the Akuma has ultra 2, I don’t think it’s adviseable to do much about it. Actually I think ultra 2 is the superior ultra in this match, because if you OS demon him when he has it, he cancels into ultra 2 during the tele. Also if you yourself have ultra 2 I believe you can actually OS tele to follow Akuma if he teleports out, and cancel into u2 during his teleports recovery (where he can’t u2) and if he cancels into u2 prior to that, then you have the ability to do the same thing back to him. Been a long time though I might need to go re-test that, so many shenanigans in the Akuma matchup heh.
What I usually do in this match is just chuck a heavy red FB just beyond HP SRK range unless he has ultra 2. I aim for the chip damage because every bit of health matters and you can’t actually turtle very well against a smart Akuma, it should go into a footsie battle in my opinion, having the life lead lets you sit back and punish someone who tries to take risks getting in and trying to get the health lead back. Also if I have meter and I’ve got them somewhere near a corner I’ll use EX red FB so I can have more frames to move in on them, once you have Akuma in the corner in this match you have a TON of control. There are other options such as DF’ing over them and hoping they tele wrong or try to reversal and whiff, also empty demon palm cross over into crouching LK and stuff but I don’t think anything using jump-ins that’s not an OS is guaranteed to punish a tele…