I don’t if I’m getting random uppercutted everytime. You might catch people the first couple times with guess uppercuts, but a good player is going to adjust, not continue to do things that aren’t working just because of some stupid “ALWAYS ATTACK” philosophy you seem to think every akuma player blindly follows.
A good defense is of course important… But a good defense’s reward is turning the tables, and putting you on the offense (which would be the main goal).
the person on offense has more chance(s) to do damage than a person on defense. He can create more openings and opportunities, and you force your opponent into having to block. Yea parrying and good wake up moves is an option, but thats a guess game too, and you don’t wanna rely on guessing to win or do dmg. This is why you don’t see any of the characters with a weak offense and strong defense typically make it far, much less win in tournaments. Don’t get me wrong, there are exceptions, and flukes, if thats what you want to call it. But you usually see characters with high priority and/or attack variety make it to the top (eg. Yun, Ken, Chun).
To make it simpler, just compare ryu to ken. Why is ken considered a better character? he has more offensive options.
Also, when on offense, you control the pace of the match, which is an incredibly important factor when playing any fighting game. You force your opponent into playing your game, rather than having to adapt to your opponent’s attacks when playing defense.
ESK:
There can be no winner when you’re talking about two logically opposite things. It’s like saying pushing is better than pulling, or that love is more powerful than hate. Just because we are aggressive beings doesn’t mean that offense is better than defense. I gaurantee you that if we put as much effort into our defense as we do our offense, you’d see a lot more defensive characters tearing it up and winning tournaments.
I used to think like you. When I played tekken I went to korea to compete. And everything I’ve said is what I’ve learned from the pros there.
I’m willing to listen if you can explain why defense is better than offense.
“The best defense is a good offense.” totally applies here.
I can’t convince anybody if they believe offense is the best. As long as a person has something behind their convictions, it’s all good. Every person is different, so if defense works for one person, and offense works for another, then let them be.
From a purely literal perspective the truth is in a fighting game environment offense is better than defense as defense doesn’t win you the match. It can help prevent damage but at some point you must apply offense to win.
Now whether a defensive style is better or not is up for debate.
If your opponent is waiting to block the dive kick to EX DP, then he is open to the flip throw.
I could care less if you turtle or rush. The only point I’m concerned with is the initiator having advantage, which I think has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Turtling is great, everyone screws up eventually if you defend long enough for their offense to become vulnerable then punish you will win a lot of matches.
However, most of the turtles I’ve seen block on wake up and look to tech throw. Parrying on wake-up is an unnecessary risky breach in defense – (which in not advantageous).
In summary of everything for the last page an a half.
The initiator has the advantage.
Blocking is top-tier
You cannot Parry throws.
Defense is a fine way to win matches.
Sorry, but the world doesn’t work that way. It’s really not that cut and dry.
The same statements can be “reversed”. What good would it do? Nothing.
The defender has the advantage.
Parrying is top-tier.
You can bait throws.
Offense is a fine way to win matches.
All I’m saying is that arguments can be made for offense and defense, yet nobody can prove or disprove their validity.
I think ur looking into this too hardcore…
Think of it this way.
If I play 100% offense, and attack non-stop, I actually have a pretty good chance of winning.
If I play 100% defense, and block the whole time, I have no chance of winning.
Therefore, offense gets me closer to winning than defense does.
But defense isn’t just blocking…it includes punishing as well, which is how turtlers actually win.
It makes absolutely no sense to me logically or theoretically why someone would want to block and wait for punishes, when its obviously apparent that the one playing offense has a significantly greater chance to do damage. Every time a defender guesses wrong, he gets hurt, but the person on offense doesn’t necessarily have to guess right, and even if he does guess wrong (unless he’s dumb and decides to do something stupid like a shoryu), chances are the defender won’t be able to capitalize on all punishable moves, probably a small percentage would actually be punished. Even if the defender manages to punish, it had better match up to the damage sustained while playing the defensive guessing game.
The one on offense creates his opportunities, and its basically up to him whether he wants to be punished or not. The defender has to adapt to the aggressor’s style, which is a disadvantage in itself. Especially on wake up, where, realistically, the defender has no more than a 50% chance to guess correctly on what the attacker is going to do.
Basically, if I was in a war, why would I ever want my opponent to take a shot at me first?
Because if you miss and reveal yourself, you’re dead. Enemy at the Gates?
No defense is perfect. If you are in a position in which you are forced to guess in order to not take damage, then that is not having the advantage. Defense and Offense are both important aspects of the game, but if you are the one throwing the punches you are in a better position to score damage (the way you win). Some players are terrible at playing a safe offense, and some are great at it. If you play one that is great at a safe offense you are going to have a hard time finding openings to punish.
Parrying is top-tier, but only if you are psychic or near psychic. Blocking is a safer defensive alternative and, thus is used more. And since no one is, it’s only situationally top-tier.
You sure can bait throws, but good luck baiting throws when you were tapping forward to try and parry that move that didn’t come out that you guessed did. Then you are right back thrown to the ground and the situation has reset.
Events that happen/can happen are not mutually exclusive in 3S or any other fighting game.
I’m done with this subject. If you want anything else from me just reread my old posts. This has become Cyclical.
This discussion is an obvious exercise in futility. Do whatever the hell you want. You obviously aren’t going to change.
This whole discussion has gotten out of control. If you assume the person knocked down is a defender from the up person an attacker, than one could argue neither have an advantage or diasadvantage, however, being knocked down still carries one huge disadvantage. Although 90% of the time the person who knocks the other down will attack, they do sometimes choose to do nothing. Blocking from a certain distance is 100% safe for the up person. The waking up person has no option with gaurunteed safety. Being knocked down is a time when you lose control of the match and that is the fundamental disadvantage of being knocked down. Other than that its all guessing.
it’s best to be knocked down in the corner with dudley breathing down your neck. i don’t know about you but i tend to stay away from situations like these. there is NO WAY the one knocked down has an advantage.
you just can’t react to everything. even the best players get hit sometimes by uoh into super and b+mk into shippu, and uohs are pretty slow in 3s compared to other moves.
yeah sometimes the momentum is with the other player and you have to defent and punish if he does something that leaves him open. but aren’t fighting games all about controling the space and the momentum. if you’re defending you don’t control it.
I have to add that defense and the ability to react is something very special. Any animal can attack, but it takes intelligence to read your opponent, anticipate his actions, and execute a counter. This sort of play allows you to adapt to anyone. Even offense is a reaction to defense…if your opponent shuts you down, you have nothing left. The only reason people attack (or keep attacking) is cause they’re reacting to a weak defense…basically, they found a way in.
why dont you guys make a thread elsewhere titled defence vs offence…
If you are guess parrying on wake up, with akuma, against anyone worth a damn, you should not be winning. Guess parry once in awhile? Sure go for it. Fight Yun, guess low, then get hit with mk sjc xx SA3, ggpo. Fight Chun, guess high, cr. mk xx sa2, guess low, b.hp xx sa2. Is that type of damage worth taking a guess parry risk for? Against Sean? Sure take the risk, because you can rape him the rest of the round because Sean is horrible. But try that shit against 75% of the cast and unless your name is Ms. Clio you should not be winning
Unless you can read your opponent like a book :rolleyes: