Gief got lariats, hawk has buster.
depends if you want to count hakan as a true grappler, he is the only true grappler so far who doesnt have a move designed to anti air. (I dont think oil dive can be considered an anti air)
So Hugos “go-to” anti air would be Backbreaker, but it needs some immunity to pass through stuff like shotos jumping hard kicks I’d still prefer a solid anti air normal, i dont like relying on specials for anti air tbh
I actually think Hugo got plenty of options… the only problem is all his good ones require meters.
But if you think about Zangief/T-Hawk.
Zangief Lariat is awesome anti-air, requires no meters but can’t be used as a dp, if you do a airborne meaty move he’s got no answer to that.
T-Hawk dp is very limited as well, HP dp is really his anti-air special however the start up is super slow and he’s got no invincibility on lower part of body at the start up and the full body invincibility comes much later meaning he can use it as get off me move unless he uses the ex version. Actually T-Hawk HP DP got more invincibility than his EX DP but the only issue is it doesn’t start at the beginning and the move is super slow.
Now you got Hugo, who we have no idea what his move properties are. We know EX backbreaker got some invincibility, but maybe the others are used the same way as T-Hawk’s DP, maybe certain strength back breaker have invincibility that comes later on (when he’s higher up), you just need to anti-air faster.
Honestly these type of information can only be found after extensive testing and only a few weeks of arcade (where every dollar counts) and a few sessions of beta testing from the public people will not really have the time to discover these details if they are there.
Obviously… more likely scenario is… Hugo’s regular back breaker different strength hardly serves any purpose.
This kind of sounds like the best way to fight a grappler is to rush him down … If a grappler cant make someone afraid of getting close (through air or ground) it’s going to be tough for him.
As you said, only grappler with a reliable anti air seems to be gief (only meaty jumps are really dangerous, but who does this against a gief anyway?)
thawk and hakan who suffer of having bad anti airs are garbage tier… this isnt the only reason obviously, but it still needs to be considered.
Grapplers need good normals, how else are we going to stop someone from just jumping in and abusing neutral jumps all the time?
Im going to test what Hugo can anti air with very carefully. Guess i’ll make this #1 priority for my personal checklist…
What I’ve noticed is even if hugo doesn’t have a dp, backbreaker still takes him far away and some characters can’t even punish it unless they’re really prepared for it and even if the inv is limited it still has it at the start.
Maybe the best choice will be to always try to Kara backbreaker to give yourself armor, but that means you need meter obviously. I just can’t wait to see the frame data and hitboxes of his moves to really see what his strong nomals are because from what I’ve seen a lot of his normals seem like they’ll be pretty bad for you once you whiff due to the recovery.
As for hawk he has Cl.mp, Thrust peak, Dp and even to an extent cr.hp. He does have several choices depending on the situation he can somewhat adequately AA characters.
well, Hugos footsie normals look very good, cr. mk sweeps and has very goo range (goes under sagats st. hk without trading), his cr. mp punishes ryus cr.mk/cr.hk clean because of its huge range and active Frames. st. mp also looks great, it has range and deals significant damage (still 120 or got that nerfed too?, *making notes).
i just wished that cr. lp would link into cr. lk/st. lk for a small hitconfirm into lk lariat
oh, and the anti air Situation of course, pls fix it capcom
I was as pissed as you when i heard the news, sitting there thinking why on earth would they do that when you have chars like chun and juri running rampant in this version, then i sat down took my Hugo nerf rage blinkers off and thought what it would be like to face that move as it was.
In short it would be pretty awful, the problem with the armored ST.Hp was it was just too good in too many situations beyond what the devs intended.
I mean some characters if pushed into the corner would be pretty much doomed with that move as it was, the flip side it didn’t help much at all with his toughest matchups aka zoners, kind of reminds me of dhalsims 2hit ST.Mk.
The info is rather thin on the ground in reguards to what he may or may not have gotten in return, for the removal it could very well be they reduced the armored window down or shifted it to a move that wasnt a swiss army knife like say CR.Hp, or just improved his hitbox/hurtbox, any number of changes that dont really show up until people start digging.
I mean didnt someone report that his EX MS suddenly had infinate armor? thats something new
Capcom themselves stated that they wanted to make Hugo better than he was in 3S, i want to believe they will stick to their word on this.
Someone on Eventhubs.com posted this under Hugos Character description:
The bolded part is very interesting, his post is from yesterday, does that mean that Hugos st. hp still has armor? Or that they gave it back? Im confused now.
Also, Heavy Claps seems to work as a situational anti air? I dont quite see how this is possible with Hugos claps going downwards Oo It sounds like trying to anti air with greenhand (not the ex version though)
Hugo’s claps have a large vertical hitbox it seems. It’s designed to pressure grounded opponents as well as punish them hard if they try to jump out. And Lariat building 40 (or more) meter on whiff is kinda insane.
I doubt the information is out of date, since he posted that just yesterday, the source telling BS could be true, this is the internet after all Maybe the nerf was in a previous build and just got reverted / fixed really fast.
There could still be changes made to the hp, maybe armor comes later / doesnt last as long / does less damage / doesnt soft knockdown on airborne opponent / etc.
There are ways to nerf st. hp without taking away the armor.
In 3S Hugo seemed pretty parry dependant, maybe capcom tried to keep it that way, just with sf4’s unique engine, armored moves.
That’s what i was thinking in regards to his ST.Hp, the arcade version is too strong, I’d rather see them reducing its effectiveness and give him more tools against his weaker matchups.
3S high level hugo play utterly relied on it to be effective, it’s evident that that’s pretty much what they seemed to intend that his USF4 incarnation has something akin to this, in addition to his armoured moves his forward dash speed is such fast enough to allow spd/u1 after a focus, very similar to his parry>grab/SA shenanigans in 3S.
Yes, that is a very tough thing to do … I seriously cant come up with anything that would work against sagat… against akuma, they could add late projectile inv. to his ex backbreaker move maybe? that would at least stop backjump air fireball abuse against hugo to some degree… dhalsim is also tough without ruining the matchup completely. I think it may be fine as it is. splash seems to be a really great jump in tool, maybe even beats some anti airs of sim, who knows (not b.hk, but maybe st. hk/ st. mk, even b.mp?). Dhalsim is either outpoke him or get in and shred him, depends on the sim players capabilities i think.
What else is there? Guile may also be fine with cr. mk beating sonic booms (at the right ranges) and st. mp maybe trading with booms too, resulting in very frightening counter hit damage (120 + 25% was it? 150 damage for a normal)
Honda may or may not be a problem, depending if backbreaker is able to beat neutral jump hp from honda (seriously doubt it), but maybe lariat will trade with it at least…
Well you guys, i wonder how solid his st hp is without the armor. Maybe it’s still viable as an AA, but i do hope the armor stays in.
I got happy when i saw what the Ehubs comment said that FeistyFree copypasted, i hope it stays like that, it seems good. Just fix somethings, leep the armor on st hp and im happy. I’ll keep on struggling.
Yeh it is tough, i was thinking about speeding up the movement speed of his EX MS/EX Lariat (i say both of these moves given they have been deliberately made to look identical to confuse your opponent) so they could be used as a just under midrange punish similar to giefs EX GH,
Another thing they could do is adjust the fireball nullifying box on Hugos Palm bomber/clap so it starts from the heel of his palm rather than his fingertips and move the hurtbox back so hugo players could react to the fireballs rather than have to throw how premptive/psychic claps to catch em.
tbh its going out on a limb to speculate on the effectiveness of these tools we dont even know if they have already tweaked them or how much they have tweaked them in this latest version.
With honda Neutral JP.Hp what does his hitbox look like and his active frames, and where does his hurtbox sit?
Hugos backbreaker in 3S had some odd properties when it came to beating other air moves, it all came down to angles, for instance if you could catch ken and ryu from underneath when they did an air tatsu it was something like a 50/50 gamble as opposed to it beating you clean at other angles.
The speed at which BB moves (especially EX) i personally think it would be risky for honda to be throwing out those neutral JP.Fp unless the hugo in question was getting too predictable in using it.
other matchups that seem to be putting the hurt on Hugo that ive seen is Juri, and Chunners.
general question here:
if juri throws out a charged mk fireball, which are designed not to hit crouchers i believe, will a character get hit if he uses a crouch normal??
Maybe hugo can crouch forward his way near juri until he is maybe 1,5~2 squares away, and if she throws mk fireball hugo could possibly sweep, if she throws lk fireball, hopkick into st. lk, lk lariat. Both scenarios lead into knockdown on a right guess. Sounds pretty devastating but all depends on juris mk fireball properties…
But chun… man i hope either jump mp or splash can beat ex spinning bird, or else this is going to be tough.
Would be nice to know if her normals can be counterpoked with st.lk into lariat.
I get the feeling lariat/ meatsquasher startup and speed is a heavy balance mechanism for hugo, easily could overbuff but also overnerf him…
I’d still prefer a solid anti air normal, i dont like relying on specials for anti air tbh
