AEMAKOTO Guide and Q&A: Ask all your questions here!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
161

yeah that’s part of the problem. YOU GOT TO MAKE MAKOTO #1!!!

j/k

There are many ways to get in… You do have to be patient. The thing is, you have to be satisfied with chipping them to death and punishing the little things. Yes you will take chip from sonic booms and FADC SRKs. Whatever. Take solice in knowing that once you finally do get in… and you will get in, you will take AT LEAST 10x the chip you received away from their life. Makoto does HELLA damage, and is confusing is hell once she gets in. Just be more patient. Don’t dash as much (even though her dash is 23452498 times better now…), and use other ways of getting in. I’m thinking more Tsurugis, more f.:mp:'s, less dashing, less Focus Dashing. More footsie war and less running into stuff. Compete with the footsies with s.:mk: and c.:mp:. Anti air properly. Punish mistakes accordingly. This is how you consistently win with Makoto. The other stuff comes later… retain your Street Fighter Fundamentals and the wins will come.

You are correct… it is dificult to do kara kara consistently. What you need is a setup, or a few setups to get yourself comfortable with it. The one I used for a long time is meaty s.:mp: Kara EX Karakusa. This one is almost impossible to defend against if the opponent gets hit or blocks the s.:mp:. If the s.:mp: doesn’t hit then the Karakusa never came out. it took a few days, but once I got used to the motion, I was able to apply it in many other situations after setting it up with moves that prevent jumping/backdashing. Most notably:

-c.:mp:, Hayte Cancel, HK Karakara (set up with c.:mp HC, IA HK Tsurugi first)
-FFS, HK Karakara (after landing at least 1 FFS combos)
-combo into HP Hayate, EX Karakara (after punishing at least 1 backdash/jump after Hayate)
-UTK, dash, f.:hk: (hold), HK Karakara (after landing Yamase post corpse hop and/or punishing a backdash after corpse hop)
-c.:lp:c.:lp: EX Karakara (after doing a few c.:lp: c.:lp: s.:mp: block strings)

this is all from practicing it from that one situation. So if you’re having trouble, These might help you out as well. There are many more setups, but these are the ones I use most often.

162

Hey is anyone having issues with pp online? on three different occasions i have lost 200 pp without disconnecting or ending a match early for any reason. its weird. every time it happened it was around 3200 3400 and 3500 pp. its starting to piss me off. Im playing on psn and im pretty sure most of you play on xbox so maybe im preaching to the wrong crowd.

163

A lot of the characters I play are similar to makoto actually. Abel and Dudley are my currents. She seems like the type I go for, patience to get in… find and opening and unload with mixups and high stun. I’m used to the ground mobility of the rolls and the duck’s though, which is why i tend to dash a lot.

I anti air properly and strongly, but then the problem becomes that they give up jumping and just zone me out, that’s almost worse! If we leave out dashing, and focus dashing for the moment, how do I walk them back to the corner? N.jp Tsurugi’s move you forward slowly I guess if they are throwing fireballs, st.mp’s and cr.mp’s should CH into hayate’s… but it’s so unsafe on block I dislike it.

I suppose I am inclined to forward jump with her a lot, and that just gets me in trouble. Without a way to move forward, it feels like i am not gaining any ground. If i finally get to the corner and they guess reversal me and get a KD and then escape the corner, gah it get’s so frustrating. I suppose this is the life of a Mak player.

164

^That is a crucial point though, not a bad thing at all. If you have convinced them to stay grounded then you just gained the advantage of making them contend with mak’s normals and if they are being conservative you are setting them up for karakusa down the road.If you are getting them into the corner don’t worry if they are escaping at the moment. Do worry if you aren’t getting them in the corner ever lol.Once they start turtling up more if you show them her pokes are good and that they can’t just hit buttons then the karakusa game opens up a bit and that is the party starter.

With regards to s.mp os hayate and c.mp os hayate; you shouldn’t be worried at all about the hayate being unsafe if you are spacing the mps to hit their pokes. If they figure out that you are buffering hayate into each poke they might just walk forward and block to cause the hayate to come out to punish, but that is when hayate cancel becomes useful.

To move forward try using these more:
-IA Tsurugi: super important to get this as your go to for getting over dangerous range fireballs unless it is guaranteed punish or safe to jump/FA dash
-f.mp: killer hitbox, covers distance slowly but stuffs a lot of things
-f.lk: not a great poke, but does move her forward a good distance and can be used to set up karakusa on block
-f.mk: covers a lot of distance but is risky, doing target combo into hk can make it a tad safer
-lp/mp hayate/kara lp/mp hayate: can cover some distance and build a little meter but generally pretty risky
-just walk: sounds dumb but just slowly walking forward is pretty great and can goad them into slowly cornering themselves, n.jump fireballs if you don’t want pushback.

165

You have the right idea when it comes to practicing everyday since winning in this game, regardless of the character, is very much about repetition/execution as it is about game sense/experience. I don’t know about trying “force” your hands to learn a link when your body/mind is obviously fatigued. You have to realize that your mind/body has its limits and sometimes, you just have to stop for the day. Some days you may be able to go 2-3 hrs, other days you may be able to longer/shorter. Just have patience and confidence that eventually you will get a handle on the combo and you will.

“how do i practice?”

Here’s my process:

example combo:

cr.LP, s.LP, s.MP->Hayate/Oroshi

I start with cr.LP, s.LP until I can do it without thinking. Only after getting the first two hits down do I start adding in the s.MP. Then I practice all three hits together until I can do it without thinking. Finally, I add the special. This is pretty much what I do for every link/combo.

On the subject of how often/long do I practice?

Even if I don’t have time to play matches, I’ll practice every day in training mode with dummy set to CPU/medium for about 15-30 min (my warm-up time before I jump online). Since execution is all about repetition, this is the best way to your mind/hands/eyes in shape.

166

Oh No Not The Longwinded Version!

[details=Spoiler]Oh i must respectfully disagree… Neither Abel nor Dudley are like Makoto. With Dudley, if you crouch tech and block correctly, what is he supposed to do if someone has a life lead on him? Not saying he’s a bad character but he has no way to punish the traditional form of perfect SF Defense which is, of course, “blocking.”

Although Abel has a good command grab, he can’t get nearly the damage/stun/morale destruction that Makoto can off of a grab. Yes his has slightly higher priority, but it is very limited in its use IMO. Step kick grab. Wake up grab. COD 1~2 hits, grab. Roll grab. All mind you, heavily punishable by moves like Tsurugi. He is a much more high/low 50/50 mix up focused character. Yes a good character, but not like Makoto. I dont’ fear Abel’s grab. Take away his command grab and you’ve got the same moves over and over. Get grabbed by Makoto one time and you could die quickly, and painfully. Take away Makoto’s grab and you are left with a plethora of insanely powerful combos that do more damage than 90% of the supers on this game for the low cost of 2 meters. Sickness.

She’s more like 2 characters mixed. I liken her to a mix of Fei Long with a strong Gief influence. Delicate, yet powerful. Intricate and purposeful movement. Overbearing even when she’s nowhere near you. Haven’t you ever realized that? People genuinely FEAR Makoto. And with good reason… they should fear her. And it works for us because we use that fear to force our opponents to do what we want them to do. It allows us to nudge them into the line of our fire where with most other characters its guessing–educated guessing at best-- 9 out of 10 times. I mean, Why does Ryu throw a FB at match start? I don’t know. Why does ken do random Tatsus? Beats me. Makoto can’t do stuff like that. 0% randomness. You must use the fear to force them into making bad decisions. If you want, you can make an opponent jump into a fukiage. If you want you can make an opponent freeze up and block 1 too many times so you can grab them. Being able to switch between rushdown (hitting) and rush down (grappling) is a characteristic that, in this game, only Makoto posesses. Yes other characters can grapple. Yes some do good damage, but no character on this game can DESTROY an opponent’s morale like makoto can. She makes people not want to fight anymore, because she has cut of all of their options.

That doesn’t make her the best character on this game (although, IMO she is), but that does seperate her from the rest of the cast. It is this mindset you must have when you play Makoto. The other character… is a victim. Not a friend. Not a peer. That other character is a fucking victim waiting to be preyed on. That’s how you must look at this. Set your traps and watch them. Remember that everything you do has a purpose. Everything. from walking to c.:mk: to karakusa setups to random U2. Make calculated decisions. Its not like playing other characters because with other characters you are fighting attributes. With Makoto, more than any other character fights primarily against decisions. This is what makes her so difficult… and so wonderful to play.

I <3 Makoto
[/details]

Short Version

Spoiler

Oh hell naw!!

167

Yea, I suppose one of the things i always felt when i played Makoto was straight up terror. Part of it was not knowing the match up, but part was just so dumbfounded and angry when i tried to do something dumb or jump out of a command grab, and finally when i gave up doing that… i got command grabbed. If her walk speed was faster I would have been playing her for a long while. Thats kind of how i go with characters though, admire them for a long time, slowly understand why i fear them, and then learn how to play them to the same effect. I suppose that’s why i likened abel and dudley to her in my mind, which in terms of characteristics, they probably are as you say.

168

Does makoto only have 2 normals that are + on block? And is her axe + on block? TK’d or otherwise?

169

c.LP and s.HP xx Hayate Canceled are +1 on block.
s.MP and s.LP are +2 on block.
f+MP can be hit meaty without a knockdown to be anywhere from +1 to +5 on block.

Non-EX Tsurugis are always negative on block, as far as I can tell. I don’t know if meaty frame advantage even applies to something like that in the air.

170

Uh, isn’t that precisely what we’re trying to do with this topic? Why would we divide our time, effort, and information?

171

thanks Robot Makoto.

172

Did a knockdown setup section, primarily based on contributions by V-Ryu, farplaner, and myself. Feel free to give further relevant and useful AE knockdown information, O my brothers!

  • Robo.
173

Ok i dont’ know why but i’m having a serious brain fart and i’m going to kill myself if this doesn’t get resolved.

Ok so about c.:hp:, Empty jump forward. Is considered a safe jump? She’s in the air for 40 frames, and I believe the knockdown lasts 45~46 frames. So does this constitue a 5~6 frame safe jump? or does this one not matter due to how long they will still be on the ground after you land?

And… what if you whiff an attack in the air? So that’s a total of 40 frames jumping, 4 frame landing recovery, and 2 unthrowable frames. Does this constitute some kind of safe jump? If they wake up on frame 45 and try to throw you on frame 46 it will whiff (which is why c.:hp:, j.(whiff attack), land, normal throw is so effective if done perfectly… ever notice you “throwing someone’s throw attempt? funny haha”), but if you hit a button when they land and they SRK you get reversal’d.

Basically what i’m asking is, is there NO type of safe jump for c.:hp:? I ask because there’s not one one the list. I’m assuming its not there because it doesn’t exist. But i’ve been sitting her trying to create one lmao. My stubborn ass…

I know i’m going to feel like a jackass after someone explains this, but whatever lol.

174

It’s not considered a safe jump in the traditional sense, since it’s not an attacking jump. Merely a fake-out. c.HP, jump forward attack and just empty jump are 100% reversal safe, since you’re ready to block and act before the opponent even wakes up. As you said, 44 frames off of 45 knockdown. You recover a frame before they wake up. I’ve never heard of 2 unthrowable frames after a jumping attack, only after being in hit-stun or block-stun or waking up.

Remember, when you immediately jump, you’re attacking at frame 40. They aren’t awake until frame 45. For a 4 frame safe jump, we need to attack at frame 45 and recover at frame 49.

There is a safe jump available off of it, there’s just no move setup for it. There can’t be, because you need to waste exactly 5 frames after the c.HP, and no move comes even close to that. There might be something like c.HP, hold down until you see Makoto crouch, instantly jump forward, or c.HP, hold forward until you see her walk. I don’t know, we’d need to find a good indicator of 5 frames.

175

Edit is working again.

176

Tagged!

177

I did a defensive guide to Makoto on post #4, detailing wake-up options, safe jumps, how to deal with pressure, and general defensive footsies a la Shiro and Mok11bk.

As always, if you’ve got any input, post it and I’ll see about adding it.

  • Robo.
178

Hello guys,

I main Rog and my secondary is Ken. However, I’d like to now add Makato to that list of characters that I main as well. Where should I begin in terms of learning her?
Would there be any PSN Makoto players willing to help teach me a bit?

PSN: Dmac0424

179

Begin at the start of this Thread. It has all the info you need. Learn to execute the first 20 posts. After your execution is down, go to the video thread and learn strategy and you’re set. Should take 3-8 months based on your commitment lol (i made a funny, but i was kind of serious FYI)

Ok down to business. I’m in practice mode… Found a couple of things out today.

I don’t know if anyone knew this, but EX Hayate, Dash X 2, (meaty) c.:lk:/s.:lp:/etc. works. So for instance you can get a quick low on someone trying to mash or jump, and hit them with (meaty) c.:lk:, s.:mp:/:hp:, Finisher. Another EX Hayate and i don’t care where you started the combo, but they are in the corner so fuki>EX IAT. BTW, You can do FFS after this meaty c.:lk: on some characters. I did it on Dudley, but it was HHHHHAAAAARRRRDDD. Like seriouly like Day One Viper FFF hard. I dont’ recommend it, but its there if you want it. I think we should just stick with c.:lk: into :hp:>EX Hayate corner combo because it does more damage than FFS>EX Hayate.

Also the meaty c.:lk: can be used to set up a Karakusa :slight_smile:

How come nobody ever told me that you can reset with j.:hp: after U2??? Can’t believe i never thought of that. Just always went for the damage. Saw vryu do that (against a Rufus i think) in the corner and then of course the meaty :mp: Oroshi, c.:lk:, EX Hayate corner combo, and its NASTY. I’m sure its around here somewhere, but man, i don’t know if I forgot or what but that shit is GREAT lol. Did like 900 damage or something like that LMAO.

Still in the lab. Hopefully nobody invites me to Endless. Just going to be in here most of the night testing stuff. I may start on a tutorial since there are so many new people and instead of reading around they just come in here for the first time ever and post stuff like “how do i play makoto?”. Then i gotta be like, yo so you turn your xbox on and put street fighter in, then plug up your controller, press up, press start, wait for the loading bla bla bla bla. I don’t know. Why did we make this tailored to new people if they just come in with a bunch of questions that are ALREADY ANSWERED in the OPs???

/bitching.

Back to the lab…

I think s.:lk: kara’s range depends on when you do it. it seems that the further out her foot is, the further she goes. Can anyone else test this? I’m having a hard time executing.

180

I’m sure there are a number of people here who mained Makoto in 3rd Strike. I never really played SF3 myself so I thought I’d ask this question:

Was Makoto’s karakusa longer ranged in SF3? Watching replays of matches, even at fairly high level, I notice a lot of whiffed Karakusa attempts in Street Fighter 4

Also a 2nd question; Any tips for fighting Gief or Thawk? I get limb grabbed a TON against these two since Makoto’s abilities are kind of slow, and SPD has amazing range + start up speed.