Properly done, most are designed to make reversals miss. Generally speaking chun EX SBK will hit once or trade GREATLY in your favor. You need to look out reversals that are targeted at attacking the air, like gief or Hakan U1. Also watch out for ultras that hit both sides or autocorrect often like Honda, blanka, or bisons. It is also succeptible to focus dashing or moving armored reversals that can autocorrect (Abel EX COD or Fuerte EX run). Remember there are more options than just these two and XU Tsurugi works better on some characters and not as well on others. Make sure you set it up with safe jumps first.
Hey, V-Ryu definitely contributed some (and helped mold the minds and styles of the creators), but the information written here is largely from me and Mossad Man, AKA M&Ms, AKA Crispy, Chocolatey Goodness.
Oh I’m sorry! i just read V-ryus name on one of the replies and assumed. Then thank you EVERYBODY who contributed to this amazing thread! seriously!
It’s Ranked Battles night in my local (non-2012) arcades tonight, so I’m bracing myself for more Makoto goodness. Last week, I got lazy and scrubbed my way into 12 wins straight with Yun. LOL. Tonight, I plan to work harder for my wins.
Here are the matches I normally face:
1 Juri/Blanka player
1 Sagat/Sakura player
1 Zangief/T.Hawk player
1 Seth player
1 Guile/Dudley player
1 Chun player
1 Chun/Rose player
1 Dhalsim player (saaaaaalllltttt)
And of course, a bunch of shoto players. I normally lose to that Guile/Dudley player, though. He seems to have my number, regardless which character he uses.
Yes, RM and Mossad did 123123123 more than me on this thread. Thanks to them :>
I dont know where to post this…
Shiro shared some Makoto tricks a few days back on twitter. I’m sorry if someone already translated/posted the same thing… Oh and, this is merely his foundings/ideas, dont take it as gospel or anything. That and my translation is not perfect. Test them out yourself to make sure what works or not etc. So here we go,
Makoto tricks #1
On okizeme, with +15F(up to you on how to create this), HP Hayate will hit airborn vs backdash/jumps. If in the corner, can follow with fukiage. An example of the situation where you can apply this, when chasing your opponent into the corner and land a backthrow (now youre in the corner), immediately press(and hold) HP and jump over your opponent(now he’s in the corner) and cancel the landing into the HP Hayate (qcf+release the HP) etc…
Makoto tricks #2
After EX Oroshi, dashx3 MP Oroshi. If the opponent was holding up, the oroshi will hit standing (+5F), if hit as an overhead (+4F) so you can combo into cr.lk xx lp or ex hayate. Also for characters with short backdashes(or in the corner), the active frame will hit airborne and force a knockdown of +76F, [my knowledge of makoto isnt that good but from my frame data book, mp oroshi doesnt cause a hard knockdown… so i dont know if I’m missing something here or if he just meant a knockdown]
Makoto tricks #3
Against tall characters(where fuzzy guard setup is possible), 12+ frames(will still work if slightly off) after you get a facedown knockdown AND being at close range(where moves will come out as close version), front/backjump HP will hit as an overhead. Specific examples, vs gief or seth, after backthrow, do backdash and dash forward, jump away HP. Another practical use is vs sagat, after backthrow, do a front jump and then jump away HP.
Makoto tricks #4
Option on Juri’s wakeup - using f.HP (ideally after a +11 knockdown) is effective. If the Juri tried to jump, the HP will hit on the ground. If she backdashed, will hit airborne. If she ex pinwheel, it will trade and you’ll be at close range at +6F, making it possible to connect with a reversal U1 or st.mp or st.mk.
i think 2 and someone posted… maybe vryu or facture or someone else who can translate. 1 and 3 are real nice, especially if they are expecting karakusa. GOD it loses to a bunch of other shit though lol. Plus i wouldn’t back throw anyone out of the corner lol. But that’s just me. Shrio>Mossad Man so you know the deal.
4 is something that’s being pieced together. Its taking us a long time to explore Yamase thoroughly. I dont’ even know if anyone tried the trade fHP into U1 before 2012! lol. But good shit none the less. Even if someone posted it before, its nice to have a good translation of the strategies in one spot. Would be nice to add to OP… if we have room lol.
EDIT - just wanted to note that if anyone has any meaty Yamase setups please share lol. I’ve been working on things like meaty fMK setups (would leave makoto at +4 if no TC) and OS TC2 in case of backdash. It should hit jump grounded, and mak should be able to link s.LP s.MP whatever afterwards. Just some thoughts…
Yep! Credit to V.I.T.R.I.O.L for bringing it to light to us.
I created setups with the intent of leaving a 2F disparage from wake-up, so that it hits jumpers, can hit a backdasher once, and will hit a crouch techer (really, any button that isn’t invincible). If you leave 3-4F, you can hit OS U1 easily unless they straight up beat your Yamase and wreck your day for doing a random U1.
Regular setups:
EX Oroshi - HK Karakusa, Yamase.
Backthrow - j.LK whiff, Yamase.
c.HP - f+MK whiff, Yamase.
OS U1 setups:
EX Oroshi - j.LK whiff, s.LK whiff, Yamase OS U1
Backthrow - LP Fukiage, Yamase OS U1
c.HP - LP Hayate, Yamase OS U1
I’m really digging these c.HP setups, gonna start using them.
niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiccccccccccccccccceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yes i will be practicing these. man you just shit out setups huh sup with that lol
When testing for OSs/safe jumps, I also tried to find a few tricks after EX Hayate -> Fukiage.
Fukiage JC neutral jump, forward j.HP (for fake cross-up on applicable characters, keeps out of corner on whiff) into:
- Neutral jump LK whiff, LK Karakusa trap
- Neutral jump late MK Tsurugi, meaty.
- s.LK whiff, j.HP/j.MK on applicable characters.
- s.HP whiff, MK Tsurugi (from OAR)
Oh, and in the corner, meaty MP Oroshi OS U1 works against most character’s backdashes. There are a lot of MP Oroshi OSs, in the corner, and they’re terribly easy to do.
Ah I’m going to try that. That is three c.HP setups you just came up with there including c.HP>dash>Meaty MP Oroshi OS U1. Even though that one you have to eyeball since its not perfect. Nice setups. Gonna try these when I get home.
I’m going to be uploading the past weeks worth of good matches. so no ranked for me tonight. It’ll be me getting blazed and me blazing. Oh and one dude called me a turtle! lmao. It was a ryu. Go fucking figure. turtle makoto. anyway… be back tonight. leaving work now…
Okay… Ever since I started using Makoto, I’ve done a combo against people who don’t stand-block against a j.HP. Simple forward j.HP xx Ultra 1. When I get blocked I always paid for it. Now I’ve figured out that I can HK Karakusa the second I land after that attack is blocked.
My question is… is this really a better option (more like “is it really safe?”), or should I look for a new thing to do after a blocked jumping attack?
Options now:
Blocked jump attack > HK Karakusa > (anything you can do out of that, including Ultra 1)
???
Man there is A LOT of stuff you can do in that situation.
Blocked jHP then:
-neutral jump attack
-instant Tsurugi
-normal throw
-cLP, sLP, cLK (look for counter hits)
-neutral jump late HK Tsurugi
-sHP, Hayate cancel, blockakusa
-s.LP, karakusa
-s/cLK, wait, if they jump, MP fuki, if they back dash, dash>EX Kara
-FFS, Kara EX Karakusa
That should get you started. Time for some mixup practice 
Very much appreciated, but every time I try to normal throw immediately after, it whiffs.
you have to wait until the block stun ends. to make it easier do a Kara throw.
Can someone tell me how to interpret frame data? I’m watching some vids where Mak does a cr.lp lp lp cr.hp combo and I can’t figure out how the frames make it work.
Using this table : http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Makoto
standing LP is active for 4 frames, recovers in 5 frames and hitstuns for 5 frames. If I hit on the first active frame, would I not have 8 frames left before I can do another action, while the opponent has 3 frames to do whatever he wants? I know this is not the case (lp mashing is possible) so I’d like to know where I’m going wrong here.
What video are you watching? The last lp would have to be hitting meaty for him to hit crouching hp. What character and is the character standing or crouching?
Some characters’ hurtboxes are weird in that sense,
For example against Dudley:
Cr.lp xx cr.lp xx s.lp > sweep (or u1) works against because the reel back (hit stun) animation of the 2nd cr.lp causes the st.lp to basically hit meaty on him allowing for the combo into sweep.
Desk’s vid [media=youtube]pnNWVMsDuxg[/media] @ 1:20
I’m also certain VRyu put up a tips and tricks vid as well where the combo was done.
You say it has to be done meaty. Assuming it hit on the last frame, there’s still 5 frames to recover, and the frame advantage is 5, thus there’s still 7 frames for the opponent to escape.
Ok, so that’s a special situation combo. I’m still none the wiser about frame data though.
Let’s try a combo which can be applied to everyone: cr.LK > EX Hayate.
Assuming cr.LK hits on the first frame and can be cancelled to EX on the next frame, that’s 2 frames of hitstun, while Ex Haya starts up in 13, so 11 frames where the opponent should be able to do something, but in practice it’s a valid combo where they can’t block.
What the hell??? Or do I interpret frame advantage as applicable AFTER the duration of the attack (so, it applies AFTER our recovery)? Assuming that is true, then it’s… 2 frames to account for (cancelled on 2nd active frame, leaves 2(remaining active)+7(recovery)+3(advantage) frames = 12, Ex Haya is 13(startup)+1(first active)).
To calculate hit or block stun: take a move’s active frames -1 (stun is calculated after the first active frame), add the recovery frames, then add advantage. The first active frame is the same frame as the last start-up frame. In that light, every move has 1 less frame of duration than adding start-up, active frames, and recovery frames. Most grounded normals have between 10-17 frames of block-stun and between 13-22 frames of hit-stun. I don’t know of anything with less, personally.
s.MP = 7 active, 7 recovery, +2 on block. 6+7+2 = 15 frames of block-stun. +5 on hit, so 18 frames of hit-stun, just enough to combo into EX Oroshi.
Meaty s.LP can have +8 frame advantage on hit, more than enough to combo the majority of Makoto’s normals.