What do you guys think of my new defensive training regimen- I enter versus mode against CPU on hardest, give myself 75% handicap, and then try to win the match purely by punishing wiffs and unsafe attacks. Oh yeah its set to 5 out of 7 rounds. I do a lot of blocking and fa counter attacks. So far I’ve only completed two characters- ryu and oni. I call it complete when I’ve beaten the CPU 5 or so times in a row using these defensive tactics. (the CPU usually will start with a 10 or so lead as i try to find what is and isn’t punishable) I’ve discovered a few match specific defenses and i hope to complete this regimen against entire cast.
honestly, i think it’s pretty keen and not necessary.
but hey, whatever works for you.
Anyone have a good link on a plinking tutorial? I just started on stick like a month ago and still getting accustomed, so I don’t know all the tricks yet
Can I ask how do you practice defense and patience? Or are you saying its unnecessary to practice defense?
http://www.youtube.com/vesperarcade#p/search/0/PfP3oj_8oXM
There’s this wonderful site called youtube. You can find so much cool stuff there.
Any chance we can get a vid of this? I can’t seem to find the right height.
Honestly mcgowan I don’t think thats gonna benefit you as much as you hope cause the situation isn’t realistic. Just hit up online
Are you saying her AA game? Blocking? Poking?
If it’s her AA game, the basics are very easy: s.MK/s.MP for far jump-ins, c.MK for most, and LP Fukiage if they’re right on top of you. Pretty easy to recognize which from the second they jump. The way I practice it is to have my dummy walk back and forth so he moves forward a little bit after a second or two, and while he does this, I throw out f+MP/c.MP/s.MP/c.LK. It’s way, way harder to AA this way, even if you’ve fully recovered in time to AA; as long as you don’t look for specific timings on when he’ll jump, it works. This is a good way to practice AAs if you don’t have a friend to help you out.
Thanks for the responses guys.
The kaiten7, I don’t understand how is it unrealistic? I’m playing against a moving target and I’m learning the specific match up from a defensive perspective. I guess you may point out that the CPU doesn’t play like people. That’s true but all people don’t play the same either. I mean I can respect if it is your feeling that playing against the CPU in general is a waste. I guess I’m not good enough yet to come to that conclusion as, while I have beaten arcade mode on hard without losing a round, I cannot yet do it consistently nor can i do it with A higher round limit. I also have not yet been able to face oni or evil ryu.
Robot, my desired goal is mostly to raise my defense grade. I mostly get d’s and e’s with A couple c’s thrown in. I figure that this must cover ALL forms of defense, especially things like being patient and blocking. I for one get nervous when the pressure is on and I’m blocking for long strings. I start to press buttons, I get hit. I try to jump away, I hit hit etc. Yes I have practiced anti airs etc in training but i know everyone has at least HAD the experience where that static training doesn’t seem to come out in a dynamic fight. As far as friends go, I have no one to play face to face (only because i don’t feel like going to Xanadu, heh) so i try to be as creative as possible in my training. Also i because I’m concentrating on finding moves that can be safely countered, I have found some things that are not on this forum. Match specific of course and I get to practice the “look out for this opening” WHILE I have to simultaneously look out for others things. This is something that doesn’t happen with A training dummy and it has actually made me much more confident in those match ups that i have completed. It’s brain exercise, to go!
Just to clarify, I’m not practicing execution, that’s what training mode is for. I’m practicing a new mentality and a different style
Hi guys. I know, extremely late with this. In fact, I was going to hold off on this post for a couple more days (maybe even a week, unfortunately), but decided to post some of it earlier than the planned post that would have had all of it. Yes, this post isn’t going to include everything, but that’s mainly because most of the other findings are unfinished and hard to setup in training mode (due to lack of quickstand emulation when recording a dummy). What will be in this post/s: more backthrow setups (yey), crossup HP setups, and… Crossup Tsurugi setups off of Oroshi (yay!). Yes, I’ve been calling it a vortex over the past week or two, simply because I want to, but also because it’s pretty similar to a vortex. It’s not as strong as Akuma’s in some aspects, but it’s infinitely better than Akuma’s in other aspects (i.e you can stun every character in the game off of a backthrow with one bar and one rep of the vortex). Last time I found setups, I was just finding setups that worked and that was it. This time around, the premise of discovery was finding setups that were easy. Anyway, enough wasting time.
New Backthrow Setups:
(Important Note: To make things easier for all Makoto players, I discovered that you don’t ALWAYS have to do hayate feint. In fact, in almost all setups, you can replace hayate feint with a s.lp or a c.lp, or even a s.mp. This makes things SO MUCH EASIER for players that have problems with hayate feints on the fly. An example of a popular setup would be: backthrow > s.lp > c.mk > MK tsurugi instead of backthrow > hayate feint > c.mk > mk tsurugi)
Spoiler
Abel:
Backthrow > Dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Adon:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (replace c.lp w s.lp or hayate feint if you want)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Akuma:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurug
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (can be reversed)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Balrog:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Bison:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > c.mp > HK tsurugi
Blanka:
Backthrow > s.mp > dash > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > f+lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > f+lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > c.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Cammy:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Chun Li:
Backthrow > dash dash dash > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > s.mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Cody:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > s.lk-s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Dan:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Dee Jay:
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > f+hp > HK Tsurugi (easy)
Backthrow > Walk Back > HK Tsurugi (aim it late)
Dhalsim:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Dudley:
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > hayate feint > c.mk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
El Fuerte:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > hk tsurugi (in between quick and regular)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Evil Ryu:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Fei Long:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Gen:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Gief:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > c.mp > MK Tsurugi (high)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Gouken:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Crouch)
Guile:
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (Can’t be reversed)
Guy:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Hakan:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (sorta late)
Honda:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Ibuki:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > s.mk > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (super easy)
Backthrow > S.MP > Slight Delay LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (unblockable)
Juri:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (between quick and regular)
Ken:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Makoto:
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > Slight Delay LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > c.lk > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Oni:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Rose:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi
Rufus:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (sorta late)
Ryu:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) * (forgot what the * was for)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Sagat:
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp (meaty)
Sakura:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (unblockable)
Seth:
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
T Hawk:
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (meaty)
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp
Vega:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Viper:
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Yang:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (or s/c.lp) > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Yun:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi*
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (or s/c.lp) > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
(Edited In) Note: There’s a setup in here that involves a neutral LK Tsurugi. Yes, this seems daunting. Surprisingly, though, upon using it in match, it has a lot of leniency and is VERY easy to do. I was expecting this to be a fluke setup, until it worked on a lot of chars and turned out to be easy to do.
Continued
Crossup Tsurugi After EX Oroshi:
(Important Note: A lot of these setups have f+mp > c.mp as the documented setup. However, this usually only applies after a karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi. Well, a lot of your ex oroshis may come off of a crossup tsurugi, and to fix this problem, simply replace f+mp with f+lk. It works everytime. So, one more time: after a backthrow crossup tsurugi setup, replace f+mp with f+lk in c.mp setups. Also, some setups will note out ‘tested off of setup’. Don’t worry, that’s just notes pointed out for odd looking setups. ALL Dash setups work after any ex oroshi)
Spoiler
Abel:
ex oroshi > dash > s.lk > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Adon:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Akuma:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+hp > dash > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
Balrog:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lk > mk tsurugi
Bison:
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+hp > dash > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > f+mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Blanka:
ex oroshi > mp fukiage > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > f+mp > MK Tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > slight pause > MK Tsurugi (meaty)
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > f+mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Cammy:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > lk tsurugi late (easier)
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi (works after setups into ex oroshi)
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Chun Li:
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > s.lk > c.hk > late lk tsurugi (only works off of close oroshi)
ex oroshi > neutral whiff mk tsurugi > late mk tsurugi (tested off of setup and worked)
ex oroshi > dash > f+mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Cody:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Dan:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Dee Jay:
ex oroshi > dash > s.lk > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > dash > S.MP > mk tsurugi
Dhalsim:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > empty xu hk > mk tsurugi (works off of setups into ex oroshi only)
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Dudley:
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
El Fuerte:
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late (works off setups)
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi (tested off of setup)
Evil Ryu:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
Fei Long:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Gen:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > dash > S.MP > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Gief:
ex oroshi > dash > s.lk > s.lp > mk tsurugi
Gouken:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi * (don’t remember what this * was for)
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Guile:
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Guy:
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Hakan:
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > dash > S.MP > mk tsurugi
Honda:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Ibuki:
ex oroshi > mp fukiage > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > lk tsurugi late (easier)
ex oroshi > empty jump xu > mk tsurugi (unblockable) (works off of setups)
Juri:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Ken:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
Makoto:
ex oroshi > mp fukiage > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi (lower than other versions / works off of setups)
ex oroshi > empty jump xu > mk tsurugi (works off of setups but is strict)
Oni:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
Rose:
ex oroshi > dash > dash > S.MP > mk tsurugi
Rufus:
ex oroshi > f+hp > dash > mk tsurugi
Ryu:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+mp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > f+hk > mk tsurugi late
Sagat:
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi (meaty)
Sakura:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Seth:
ex oroshi > dash > s.lk > s.lp > mk tsurugi
T Hawk:
ex oroshi > dash > s.lk > s.lp > mk tsurugi
Vega:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
Viper:
ex oroshi > dash > s.mp > s.lp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > dash > s.lp > s.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > f+lk > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Yang:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > empty xu hk > mk tsurugi (works off of setups into ex oroshi only)
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Yun:
ex oroshi > f+mp > c.mp > mk tsurugi
ex oroshi > empty xu hk > mk tsurugi (works off of setups into ex oroshi only)
ex oroshi > dash > c.hp > mk tsurugi
Notes: You’ll notice a few setups that utilize Late Tsurugi. I’m sure you guys know about it, but I didn’t; There is a certain point in your jump arc when you do a tsurugi, even the LK and MK tsurugi hitboxes take form of the HK Tsurugi hitbox. It’s really late into the jump, borderline passing your opponent. To me, it’s an entirely new type of tsurugi. I’ve uploaded an example of it. Do not be afraid of it. When looking at it for the first time, it looks really hard. It is NOT. In fact, it’s one of the easiest setups and I wish it worked on more characters.
Crossup J.HP Setups:
(Important Note: Some of these setups are very immature in form, because when I started looking for these, I was in a totally different direction than I ended up looking in the long run, so a VERY small amount of characters have some walkback force setups, but I scrapped the idea early on. If you like them, I can find more. Also noted is that in some examples of the vortex, j.hp after an ex oroshi is much easier on certain characters than crossup Tsurugi, such as Rose, Guile, T Hawk and Sagat)
Spoiler
Abel:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Adon:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hk > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Akuma:
Backthrow > dash > s.lp > s.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX Oroshi > hayate feint > c.mp > j.hp
Balrog:
Backthrow > c.hk > s.lk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Bison:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hk > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Backthrow > c.hk > s.lp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Blanka:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Cammy:
Backthrow > c.hk > s.lp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Chun Li:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Cody:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Dan:
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Dee Jay:
Backthrow > c.hk > s.lp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > s.lp > s.hk > j.hp
Dhalsim:
Dudley:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
El Fuerte:
Backthrow > c.hk > s.lp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Evil Ryu:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.lp > c.mk > j.hp
Fei Long:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Gen:
Gief:
Karakusa > f+mp > s.hp > j.hp (can’t be u1d)
Backthrow > f+HP > J.hp
Gouken:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hk > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Guile:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
ex oroshi > dash > s.lp > c.mp > j.hp
Guy:
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
ex oroshi > dash > s.lp > c.mp > j.hp
Hakan:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Honda:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hp > j.hp (walk back forces j.hp to crossup)
Ibuki:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hp > j.hp (walk back forces j.hp to crossup)
Juri:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Ken:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.lp > c.mk > j.hp
Makoto:
Backthrow > c.lp s.lp s.lp s.lk > j.hp (walk forces j.hp to crossup)
Backthrow > f.mp > s.lk > s.lk > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Backthrow > hayate feint > c.mk > s.lk > j.hp (walk back forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > hayate feint > c.mp > j.hp
Oni:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.lp > c.mk > j.hp
Rose:
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
ex oroshi > dash > s.lp > c.mp > j.hp
Rufus:
Backthrow > s.lk > c.hp > j.hp (walkback forces j.hp to crossup)
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
EX Oroshi > dash > s.lp > c.mp > j.hp
Ryu:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.lp > c.mk > j.hp
Sagat:
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp
Sakura:
Karakusa > s.lk > c.mk > j.hp
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Seth:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
T Hawk:
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp
Backthrow > f+hp > j.hp
Vega:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp
Karakusa > S.HP xx EX oroshi > Hayate Feint > s.mk > j.hp
Viper:
Yang:
Yun:
Karakusa > s.hp xx ex oroshi > c.hp > j.hp (walk out)
I intend on finding more setups off of backthrow for j.hp, but xu.hp was far from the center of my attention. I’ve been using this vortex in matches with salt-inducing levels of consistency. It’s really fun to get a backthrow or ex oroshi and once your opponent tries to adjust to the vortex, it opens up Makoto’s playbook tenfold. A lot of players that eventually make adjustments become meaty fodder with s.mp, which gives me a free meaty link into s.hp, and then into whatever. Or a karakusa. I think, when you’re not stunning your opponents, you’ll enjoy the amount of options that the threat opens up for Makoto. Unfortunately, I couldn’t post my HK Tsurugi Followups, my EX Hayate followups or my blockstrings (stand/crouch) into xu tsurugi followups, but that’s because they’re not done, and I wanted to get the bulk of this vortex out now. I feel the ex oroshi part was the most important thing because it provides an unrivaled synergy off of EX Oroshi when you score a crossup Tsurugi.
Examples:
Spoiler
Late Tsurugi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaG2lkTYuNM
Neutral LK Tsurugi Whiff Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9kwYZfqtc
MK Tsurugi Setup Without Feint C.MK (proof): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0i3PDcud9k
Vortex Example on Juri: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O15pbogG5U
Vortex Example on Juri 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqjSeQkjYmM
Vortex Example on Fei Long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC83H7drY-s (he would have been stunned a long time ago)
Vortex Example on Blanka: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvWtN7REDc
Vortex Example on Blanka 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agOXnlLZigY
Vortex Example on Bison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oudzBMCTcs
First Time Using It In A Match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3G21Z1Kh5U
Also, I took the liberty to make a compiled list of the backthrow setups.
Before I post it, a quick little legend (despite being common sense)
The format is this:
Character:
Setups
- (this is a seperator between setups found in super and setups found in AE; Setups found and/or retested/revamped in AE will be placed underneath the *)
Setups
Backthrow Crossup/Unblockable Tsurugi Setups Master List:
Spoiler
Abel:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > walk forward > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Adon:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (replace c.lp w s.lp or hayate feint if you want)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Akuma:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurug
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (can be reversed)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Balrog:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Bison:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > c.mp > HK tsurugi
Blanka:
Backthrow > Dash > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > s.mp > dash > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > f+lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > f+lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > c.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Cammy:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Chun Li:
Backthrow > dash > LP Hayate Feint (with HK) > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > dash dash dash > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > s.mp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Cody:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > s.lk-s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Dan:
Backthrow > Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Dee Jay:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > f+hp > HK Tsurugi (easy)
Backthrow > Walk Back > HK Tsurugi (aim it late)
Dhalsim:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Dudley:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
*
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > hayate feint > c.mk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
El Fuerte:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > hk tsurugi (in between quick and regular)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Evil Ryu:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Fei Long:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Gen:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Gief:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > c.mp > MK Tsurugi (high)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Gouken:
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Crouch)
Guile:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp s.hk/s.mk > MK Tsurugi (Hard to make unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (Can’t be reversed)
Guy:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground (crouching)
Backthrow > F+MP F+LK (jump forward slight pause) MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Hakan:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > Dash > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (sorta late)
Honda:
Backthrow > s.mp c.lp > MK tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.mp > LP Hayate Feint > c.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hk > s.lp/c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp s.lp > MK Tsurugi (can be c.lp on the first lp)
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Ibuki:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > s.mk > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (super easy)
Backthrow > S.MP > Slight Delay LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (unblockable)
Juri:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable) (between quick and regular)
Ken:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Makoto:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Lower To The Ground
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > Slight Delay LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > c.lk > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (quick) (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Oni:
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.MP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Rose:
Backthrow > Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi
Rufus:
Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Higher Above the Ground
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > c.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > Late HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (sorta late)
Ryu:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > S.HK > LK Tsurugi (can reverse)
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > c.lp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable) * (forgot what the * was for)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.mk > hayate feint > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Instant LK Tsurugi > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > f+mp > s.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.mp > c.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Sagat:
Backthrow > Empty Crossup Fierce > MK Tsurugi Higher Above the Ground
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (crouch)
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp (meaty)
Sakura:
Backthrow > dash > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.lp > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (MEATY)
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.mp > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick) (unblockable)
Seth:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable, even with LK Tsurugi)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
*
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lp > s.lk > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
T Hawk:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi high/late in the jump arc
Backthrow > s.lp s.lp s.lk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi (unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi (meaty)
Backthrow > c.hk > j.hp
Vega:
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.lp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > s.lk > s.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Viper:
Empty Crossup Fierce > Jump Forward MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > F+LK > c.mk > LK Tsurugi
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint > s.mk > MK Tsurugi
*
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (really quick) > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > s.hp > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > S.MP > LP Hayate Feint > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > Hayate Feint > c.lk > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > c.hk > HK Tsurugi
Yang:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi*
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (or s/c.lp) > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
Yun:
Backthrow > Dash > S.MK > MK Tsurugi*
Backthrow > LP Hayate Feint (or s/c.lp) > c.mp > mk tsurugi
Backthrow > Neutral LK Tsurugi (quick) > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MK > S.LP > MK Tsurugi
Backthrow > S.MP > S.LP > MK Tsurugi (Unblockable)
Backthrow > Dash > S.LK > HK Tsurugi (quick)
JESUS CHRIST
This is it. 3rd strike Mak back in effect. Guess right twice and win. And until the rest of the community catches wind of it, we won’t even be guessing.
Also, little tidbit, kara back throw (just back + lk ~ lp) works post hp hayate just like kara forward throw (doesn’t work after any of the other hayates, at least not reliably on every character), so I’ve been using that as a pretty easy setup for this madness.
Oh my God.
I really need to use Makoto more often, this looks so sick.
Thank you Ash, I can only imagine how much time was spent in checking this for all characters.
Look for real I’ve been doing some of the earlier versions OAR showed me and this shit is ridiculous. I was 68-7 at last nights casuals. Only played about 5 guys but they used to give me trouble. This, coupled with crossup U2 makes her a handful…
Thanks OAR for your hard work man. Thanks so much. Once we plug this into Vryus Telepathic Cyborg Makoto I believe EVO is ours for the taking!!! Muahahaha!!!
Oh hey! What’s up man? I just saw your first post about the loop, and saw your empty jump setup on Balrog. That’s really good, and I really wish I had experimented with it more outside of just a few chars. I’m glad you and VRyu found some empty jump setups after an ex oroshi, because they’re also really easy and very accurate, and I was looking for those prior to posting this. Hope you guys can find more to make my life a little bit easier (and more fun, because I am addicted to Makoto shenanigans)
And XU U2 is broken. It’s so fun. I’ve got a list of characters who that junk works on off of many different setups, but because I am not the originator of that concept and whatnot, I’ve reserved that for whoever wants to do that. It’s really good, and funny every single time it hits. Feels a little dirty.
I’d also like to point out, with Capcom speeding up Makoto’s U2, it seems like a blatant shot at making XU/Unblockable U2 harder from Vryu’s initial setups, but opens up the door for setups on chars previously safe to this broken nonsense
Yeah IMO man the shit is cheap lmao. I do it a lot online, but last night was the first time I did it at casuals… The look on their faces!!! It’s even worse cause you can tell them which way to block over and over and they won’t do it lol. And yeah it sets up meaties really well. Particularly meaty c.lk, meaty sweep and meaty back throw. Playing Makoto is now a big minefield waiting to blow the opponent up for one misstep. I love this shit lol!
Oh and uh… Post that shit mayne. Vryu came up with those and I’m sure he’d appreciate any other U2 setups. Oh and me to lol
@mossad:
Strange that you didnt use tsurugi crossup in Super. I’ve uploaded some vids of them before (against sagat/feilong/rufus and dont remember who). That was already broken xD
@OAR
I’ve found some new crossup setup too, like blockstring (crLP*2 -> f+LK -> crossup MK tsurugi for example) or after corner knockdown. Or even hitting standing AND crouching opponent.
OAR, you were telling me about post-EX hayate (mid-screen). I found some, but they are too risky. Opponent can easily AA you.
The post-throw unblockable/crossup are really dangerous too, because if opponent is crouching, or hit on wakeup (like ryu’s crMK), you will get lof of damage, because tsurugi whiff. So i tried to find new one hitting like the post-EX oroshi. (crouching AND standing).
I think, for now, I’lI just continue to use the one I’ve found back in super (stLK -> HK tsurugi, post-EX oroshi and every corner setup) because the new one are really dangerous if you didnt condition your opponent to stay standing. And that’s difficult on 1-2 matches.
I’ll made a complete list when I’ll find on which character they works. But for now, have to train them a lot before tomorrow evening (leaving for holland).
Oh and there are some way anti-opponent-OS u2 crossup setup too.
edit:
oh, i didnt see your new post just above. Gonna check them now :> Thanks!
re-edit:
my god god, too many things 
I think we should put them by setup, not by character. It would be easier to remember.
I can make it for you if you dont want to spend time to do it.
(backthrow -> crHK -> jHP on sagat, yeah. Noticed that after watching chiba attempting to do it (i love his makoto damn it).
I feel you. Almost all of the backthrow setups I posted from AE will hit crouching opponents, and go over reversals as well. With the EX Oroshi setups, because Makoto is standing in front of her opponent face up, it makes it hard to make them hit crouch (shave off time too because they don’t have to turn around), but a handful of them will (proof of concept for when I decide to shake the laziness and find more effecient setups, too). If I had a bit more time in the day and wasn’t looking for super easy setups, I’d probably have a list of multiple setups that hit crossup on stand crouch against all characters. In matches, I can pretty much judge the distance of the opponent and hit them with XU fierce off of certain walk back times, and XU MK Tsurugi’s on crouch (even in the example), but I can’t post a setup that says “Backthrow/EX Oroshi > Walk Back/Forward X Frames > Y Frame Delay > J.HP/Tsurugi,” because that’s not something anyone else can relate to unless they have a feel for it. Because I’ve spent so much time in training mode finding setups, I’ve encumbered a huge feel for characters wakeup times and hitboxes, and it really helps in matches to disguise my intent while hitting people trying to dodge it.
Edit:
Hey, if you want to put them by setup, you can. In fact, when I started off with crossup tsurugis off of backthrow, they were initially listed by setup, and not character. However, I made the change simply because when I was going into a match against characters, I’d sit there scrambling through a huge list of setups, trying to find a setup to work on x character, and by that time, I had already run out of time. So I just made a list of characters, then put the setups that worked on them under it. Also, there are a LOT of setups in there, even though I usually only gravitate towards one or two setups per character. The reason is preference. I am not sure if some other Makoto user will have the same preference to a setup I like, or they may find it harder to do. So, if I can provide more options and setups that might be easier for them, I tried to. Some characters were too difficult or tedious to find stuff on, and some characters (Dhalsim, Viper, Yang, Gen, etc), I just could NOT crossup with fierce at all with a setup. Even then, I could only crossup Viper without a setup. =(