maybe once i start driving i’ll pick up 34 and take him out to battle circuit. but then i’d leave him stranded in NY. Kappa
Wait, you don’t have a license yet? Gosh, you can’t be much older than me. No wonder. Q.Q
I bet cliffeside and 34 end up on a wacky road trip and become best buddies like some martin lawrence movie.
Pls stop. Im delicate.
Walk speed, thunderbolt, and crossup are a bit much… 6f sweep, HK counter hit distance, and f.MK changes look good. That’s as far as I got. The school’s Internet sucks. What’s your guys’ thoughts?
wow. rose throw juggling actually looks pretty legit. SSB being armor break and full throw invincible on start up is AMAZIIIIIIIIIIIING! THAT IS HOW IT SHOULD BE DEFINITELY! but i think they should be applied differently though. like l.SSB should have the full throw while m/h ssb should have the armor break. EX should have a smaller lower body hurtbox and be full throw invincible.
also another buff i want is for SSB to have the shortcut df, d, db, b+k. it always seemed weird to me that you can do a duck from db, d, df, f+k but you can’t do SSB from reverse. plus that would make it easier to get SSB from a defensive crouch position by going to df then rolling the stick back instead of going to forward which can accidentally get you a duck (this has happened to me so many times). it’d make reacting to throws with it a bit more smooth.
Hi guys, I searched capcom unity threads and tried to compile a buff list for most characters, based on the sugestions posted there.
The idea is - stronger characters will receive less buffs, weaker ones more, and top tiers mostly nothing.
I will post the entire buff list on capcom unity on week 5.
This is Dudley’s list:
Dudley
- F+ MK: Extend the hitbox of the move to the edge of his glove
- cr. LP: Increase the hitbox of the move
- F+ HK: - fix the reel back bug
- Reduced lower body hurtbox
- st HP: increased downward range.
- cr. HK: reduce the recovery on whiff
- MGB: +1 hitstun for M, H (+2/+1)
- reduce the start up by 1 frame for L, and 2 frames for M,H (8-14-16)
- SSB: - buff the hitbox for the normal versions.
- +1 blockstun for normal versions (-1/-3/-3)
- all versions become throw invincible
- st MP: Increase the horizontal hitbox of the move
- cr MK: extend the horizontal hitbox so that it reaches to the tip of his glove
- cr MP: Increased horizontal range (to tip of glove)
- Cross Counter: should always take gray health, and the hitbox should be modified so that it will always connect when activated.
- Ultra 1: Boost juggle damage to 300 or 350
Explanations:
[details=Spoiler]
- F+Mk: This move does a poor job at counter hitting normals/pushing your way in.
- cr Lp: There’s no reason for it to not extend to the tip of his glove.
- st Hp: completely whiffs vs Cammy crouching from any range
- cr Hk: should have less recover in order not to be punishable by a jump attack
- Mgb: At least make him +2 on hit so he can continue to pressure vs characters with hitbox altering moves like Ryu’s c.MK which, at the moment, will push Dudley out on these moves.
The reduced start up on the light version gives Dudley more opportunities to punish unsafe moves. Medium version is slow enough that dudley can’t combo off a non counter hit light attacks but fast enough to give Dudley better punish opportunities. Heavy version will be able to combo off Dudley’s medium punches which raises his damage potential from buffering those attacks. - Ssb: Currently, Dudley has almost no way to apply any sort of chip damage to grapplers with 2f throws without risk of being punished. L.SSB will allow Dudley to have a low risk, low reward chance of baiting a throw, while also applying some chip damage. M.SSB having 1 frame less recovery fits with the risks of using this move, there are many ways of countering SSB such as focus, neutral jumps, mashing buttons, so having it safer on block puts more pressure on the opponent to try and counter the move. having it at -3f still allows it to be punishable but also rewards the player for properly spacing it for safety.
There’s no reason for me to get thrown out of a move designed to bait throws. - st Mp: It’s been said before but this whiffs on a lot of characters.
- cr Mk: Dudley has a lot of false advertising on his moves, and many of them don’t hit where they look like they do. The move starts in 8 frames, and even characters with the slowest sweeps can easily whiff punish it. At least let it reach farther.
- cr Mp: This change will allow Dudley to have a bit more priority and a more realistic range in the close range that matches the animation of the move.
- Cross Counter: Starts in 3 frames, has no invincibility, loses to armor breakers, lows, and moves that hit below the waist, doesn’t always connect on deep crossups and you STILL take full damage. This move has little to no utility. Cross Counter should always take gray health, and the hitbox should be modified so that it will always connect when activated. I’m not going to ask for invincibility on startup or anything, as that would be too good.
- Ultra 1: Currently, the damage received from comboing into RT is a whole lot less than just burning the EX meter used for cancelling for additional hits. Also comboing RT from ex.mgb is an extremely sensitive combo so there should be a bit more reward for landing it. with 300, RT won’t do as much damage as Corkscrew Blow so it won’t overshadow it as the optimal ultra for combos. [/details]
Would you agree with this ? anything broken/ too strong ?
Why do you post in every single patch thread for every single character Emanuel
I want to compile a list with buffs for every character and then post it at capcom unity, so I’m asking the oppinion of character’s respective mainers.
But there are already people who did this from this board. Your post will just disrupt things since you have no real views on this/most character(s).
Yes, everybody posted their views on their respective characters - but what I’m trying to do is - put everything together - and present Capcom an example how the balance could be done.
What I’m afraid is that Capcom might decide to go the usual route: Nerf the top tiers and only throw a couple of minor buffs for the rest.
I really hope they will decide instead to leave the top tiers (mostly) alone, and buff the rest of the cast. So i’m trying to present them an example how this could be done.
And I didn’t impose my views on the character’s buffs - I just collected what their respective mainers wanted (and usually I put more faith on those more knowledgeable - for example for dudley I included most of yours, Cliffeside and Chaotix sugestions). I posted here so you could check if anything wrong was added.
I think this could be one more chance to present Capcom our most wanted requests.
Judging by what was on the front page today, Capcom will be listening to the Japanese players more than any other demographic anyway. I can’t blame 'em. They handled the situation much better than the English speaking players have,
@Emanuelb
Hi, I’m going to point out few things regarding your method of balance suggestion compilation. But first, I want to clarify something.
Do you agree with the bolded part?
From my understanding, you ask others’ opinions concerning their respective characters because you’re aware that you don’t have the insight to balance the said characters.
Which leads me to a series of questions.
- Have you seen any of their matches (Thirtyfour, cliffeside, cHaotix)?
- If you did, how were you able to discern their skill levels from others?
- How do you exactly put “more faith on those more knowledgeable” when you don’t know much about X character?
Yes and no. I’m not sure if you realized, but there’s a lot of inconsistencies in your posts.
I’m not trying to pull a straw man here, but there were many times where you intervened when someone suggested a broken request even without having anyone warn you (not this board specifically). But for the most part there were a lot of overpowered and broken suggestions which slipped through your “radar” because of your lack of knowledge in X characters.
I’m quoting this again because I want to remind you that no one can truly stay neutral when it comes to balancing characters. We all have our favorite and wishlist which inevitably causes some sort of bias.
So from what I’ve seen so far, the balance change list you’re trying to compile basically comes down to this.
- Ask other players for inputs.
- Keep the most requested suggestions in mind.
- Do I find this broken? No: Proceed / Yes: Intervene.
- Can they provide some kind of argument? Can they convince me?
- Put more faith on respective players who I “think” are most knowledgeable.
While I appreciate your concern for the next balance update, I find this method to be highly flawed. I can relate to it to some extent because I tried to compile a Dudley suggestion list in the past, but it turned out to be big mistake. Mainly because I was a new player that time (2 months old) so my game knowledge was poor, not to mention there were many overpowered requests which I had to include only because it was requested by a lot of people which in return created big dramas.
Oh and if you’re wondering if Thiryfour is going to reply to you any soon, I wouldn’t count on it. If I’m guessing right then he’s probably thinking something along the line like “why are these shit dudleys even giving their inputs? why is this guy who doesn’t even play the game in charge of making a community buff list? why do I still post here? fuck this”.
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yes I don’t play Dudley seriously, that’s why I’m collecting oppinions from dudley players.
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Yes, I’ve seen their matches. 34 is regarded by most as one of the best dudley around. Cliffeside is also considered one of the best dudley players on East Coast. And I’ve seen Chaotix playing last week at Texas Showdown.
What I meant about “putting more faith” is - if one of these players sugested a change, then it’s more probable that I will include it on the list.
And, if i’m not mistaken, when we were talking about tier list and dudley match ups, you recommended me 34, Cliffeside and mellow as knowledgeable dudley players that I should talk with. Unfortunatelly Mellow didn’t post it at CU (or at least I couldn’t find his post). -
I’m not exactly sure what are you reffering to. I try not to include broken stuff, that’s why I’m asking the respective mainers. It is possible to still have overpowered things on the list, but afterall, Capcom will test and decide if something is too strong. I just want to be sure my list is not overcrowded with unrealistic stuff.
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True, I can’t be 100% objective. Sometimes I have to make a decision - if to include something or not. But generally I’m open to sugestions, that’s why I came here.
I don’t think my method is flawed (and you didn’t provide any arguments why it would be). I’m not saying is perfect, but as a general outline how the next balance might be, I think is pretty good.
I would simplify it to:
- check capcom unity threads
- keep the most requested sugestions
- sugestions coming from more knowledegable players weight more
- make a list and post it on AE rebalance thread/ respective character’s mainer and ask for oppinions.
I think this would be a usefull way to remind capcom of our most desired changes, compiled in a structured form. Maybe it will have an effect. Maybe it will not. But it worth a try.
I’m not necesarry waiting for 34’s reply. The list I posted is for everyone. So if you think something is too strong or Dudley would benefit from something else more, you can say what you would like to replace.
If nobody replies to my list, then I usually assume:
A. people are content with the list
B. people don’t care about it
Either way, it means my job is done there (less work for me).
@Emanuelb
First, let me apologize in advance if my previous comment sounded too aggressive. I want to let you know that I didn’t purposely post that to “get you” or in attempt to discredit your work. For all I know, your intention is honest and you genuinely want to make things better and organized for everyone else. Now that’s cleared up (hopefully), I’ll try my best to further address some of my concerns on why I think your method is flawed biased.
Thank you, this is now somewhat clear except the bolded part which probably means you do have some knowledge regaring Dudley.
Fair enough, I’ll get back to this later.
I’m quite surprised you remembered that, I have completely forgotten about it until now. Anyhow, yes I did recommend them that time (was it around a year ago?) and some other Dudley players like mowr and East that came to my mind. I strongly recommended Thirtyfour and Mellow because I played them before and they made me realize how much of a big difference in skill gap there was between me and them that time. As for others, it seemed to me like they were one of the most active users so I thought it wouldn’t hurt to call them out for their inputs.
But that’s not very relevant when it comes down to making a distinction between a tier-list and balance changes. Anyone can share their views on tier-lists, but the same can’t be said when it comes to balance changes. The suggestions on balance might actually affect the gameplay in future updates if there was a significant X (absurd) requests to the balance team. The staffs don’t play fighting games competitively, they make mistakes here now and then and also break things without meaning to.
There’s a reason why Sakura’s EX-Tatsu and Fei-long’s EX-Flying kick is still here. Because Capcom either loves those characters or they didn’t think it would be that overpowered. There wouldn’t be any reason for a balance update if the team knew exactly what they were doing and the game would’ve been very balance from day 1. Now here’s what I’m trying to get at.
You said yourself that you have no real view on X character (Dudley). So you resort, or rather you don’t have much of a choice in taking others words at face value. Okay that’s understandable, I would have done the same if I was forced to make a balance change list. But the least you could have done is to actually verify the integrity of those suggestions by testing out yourself. Just by looking at your currently unfinished compiled Dudley buff list, I can tell you out of 16 listed 14 don’t have enough justification for a change. Example: Regular SSB actually hits where they’re supposed to (takes 10 seconds in training mode to verify). Cr.jab’s hitbox doesn’t need an increase because currently it’s one of the average-above average Cr.Jab in terms of reach in the game (download the Ono Tool and get the RAW data on PC SF4AE). Listen, I’m not trying to put you in some blame here, what I want you to realize is that you shouldn’t put that much “faith” into those more knowledgeable players when THEY DON’T EVEN TEST THEIR OWN GOD DAMN SUGGESTIONS in the first place. PC AE is like 10 bucks on sale with all the costumes, it’s really not that expensive.
Maybe flawed isn’t the right word, “biased” could fit the description. Yes I did provide arguments just now and on my previous post.
Definitely worth a try, but just a compilation is not enough. You have to make it stand out from the rest of asinine suggestions posted on Capcom-Unity. Adding visuals and a more detailed reasoning should help a lot.
My bad, I thought you were.
Oh and I rather not provide any of my suggestions here. If I’m not mistaken I’m automatically labeled as a troll here.
I think everyone already knew from start that the developers will listen to the Japanese players for the most part.
I’m going to translate my Dudley suggestions for the next update in Japanese once my finals are over and send it to their HQ.
At least ComboFiend didn’t seem to think my request was waste of time.
Oh no! Did I ruin yet ANOTHER Dudley request? I’m sorry guys it looks like you have to suffer AGAIN.
I bet reewind’s request was all normals do armor break.
I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or serious…