So Honda now has the farthest invincible command throw in the game afaik. The only other character who has about the same range is T.Hawk’s super.
Walking up and ex oicho seems like a viable tactic, once used people will tend to backdash and walk back more often in footsie range, making it easier it push your opponents into the corner. Fear factor, I say.
EX hb pushback on block is a real blow to the nuts.
When I first read it, I thought it wouldn’t be so bad, because secretly Vega could punish ex.hb all along with his c.mp.
But now that I’ve seen match footage of how it looks like on block… idk man…
Check at the 1:32 mark. Pushback seems severely nerfed.
Looks to me like it has mp or hp headbutt pushback.
if its for 1 hit of a normal i am ok with it, as it stands there are maybe 5 ultras (dudley, abel, chun li, actually cant think of any others) that can punish it on block currently and of course EX Rekka (which has been hit with a range nerf but i am guessing that it will still punish it- as it should) so yeah as long as it doesn’t lead to combos i think it is more than fair especailly considering the rest of the buffs we are getting
The game has finished 65 percent. If no one give idea to capcom, capcom will treat it as 100 percent.
I hope EX HSS has +6 frame on hit in order to link with croach weak punch.
Starting frame of ultra 1 can be changed to +6.
As sagat has been buffed in new version, it will be bad matchup for honda.
I hope ex headbutt can penerate the fireball or medium punch can cancel fireball.
Sumo splash on block changed to -1 frame. It can let honda to get close with sagat without punishment.
It looks like they’re trying to make cl.HP finally a decent anti-air now, in return for nerfing the damage on anti-air f.HP. That would be nice, although it’d be better if cl.HP was back + HP instead. More range on U2 is great already, even if it’s still jumpable; the fact that it’s a 720 now makes me think it’ll be back to 1+0 instead of 0+1, which is even better. We’ll have to see how bad EX HB punishes get, but that could be really bad…imagine an Evil Ryu cr.MK punish…LOL.
Cammy, Seth, and Fei nerfs will be nice. But those huge lists of buffs to Chun and Dhalsim are terrifying.
As far as global changes go…Red Focus only absorbing two hits makes me breathe a huge sigh of relief. If people could absorb HHS and crumple, that would’ve been devastating. And slow rise is probably better for Honda than anybody else, since he gives no shits about knockdowns already, while it helps his defense.
The new State Change OS stuff is a bit of a wash for Honda. On one hand, he can’t really abuse it in footsies (although it might be useful for oki after Oicho, researching that now…) due to needing charge, but on the other hand it probably won’t be that great against him either, since his best poke is a jab that should recover fast enough to block OS’d things. Using headbutts in footsies shouldn’t be too bad either, since he’ll be airborne, although MP and HK become a lot riskier.
Japan wiki confirms that Ultra 1 start up frame is changed from 11 frames to 8 frames.
The news in wiki is wrong. I think it can link with extend HHS easily.
WOW, I mean, WOW. Major news, guys, Akimo is right. It’s not the Super that had the start up reduced, but the Ultra 1 !!!
That is BIG. Now I understand the confusion: In japanese, Ultra 1 name is “Soopa Oni Musou” (= super devil something), so I guess those who translated thought is his Super (but Honda’s Super is called “Oni Musou” only), hence the confussion.
So: instead of Super, we’ve got our Ultra 1 buffed, with start up reduced from 11 fr to 8 fr. This is awesome. I doubt we will be able to combo into (I think they made something to prevent it) - but who knows, maybe - but it doesn’t matter. With this reduction, U1 will be much better as an anti fireball ultra, and will be a huge help for Honda in his bad matches. Thank you, Akimo.
Man, I like more and more these changes.
As for the nerfs:
far Hp: we still don’t know if they changed the dmg for the whole duration or only for the later frames, so it might be a buff. But even if it’s not, an example:
Right now, against Vega, Honda can hit him with far Hp from max 6.5 squares (training room). The dmg is 80. Even if you are as close as 3.5 squares, you still get 80 dmg. You need to be at max 3 squares from Vega to get the whole 120 dmg.
What this means is - most of the time, in footsies you only get 80 dmg. Only as an AA you get 120 dmg more frequently, and even then you might still get 80.
So basically this change is still good for Honda no matter what - esp since his cl Hp will be buffed
As for Ex Hb: yeah, it’s annoying, BUT:
Ex Oicho it seems will have 1-5 fr of full invincibility, so we will have another reversal up close
The wiki link (from Akimo’s post) says Vega can now punish it with cr mp - but Vega’s cr mp is a 4f start up poke, with amazing range (9 squares), and Vega has the best walk speed. He currently can already punish with walk cr mp Hp and Mp headbutts.
The idea is - not many characters have something similar to Vega’s cr mp, so while Ex Hb will be more punishable, I don’t think it will be terrible.
i have been thinking a lot about all this state change OS stuff and yeah i agree with nybb i dont think its gonna be much of a thing for us or against us. was just wondering though if there is a way to help improve your buffer for u1 because typically right now the way i do it is i am blowing my charge anyway, i buffer it and if i see if the fireball comes out then react… so why not buffer it OS? from what i understand it should work but i am pretty bad at execution so i havent been able to get it to work yet. hopefully one of you can help
i hope DP cant punish ex headbutt now or kara tiger uppercut with the new changes… that would suck but then again i dont really use it offensively, only sometimes as pressure right up close on wakeup so with the new oicho that wakeup pressure is improved anyway. just makes it a little riskier to try and beat reversals with. makes bad players have to stop using it offensively as well (i like saving meter for super)
u1 news is great i hope damage remains and link from hhs is possible (its hard as hell though i still havent been able to do it)
where do we go to post suggestions? i live in canada i dont think i will get a location test
You can post your comments in capcom forum or tell your ideas to combofiend. You can tell mike ross.
Sagat is very powerful. Honda cannot jump in to play in this matchup. Diffcult to get close due to his fireball, tiger knee and land attack. I hope his kara uppercut cannot punish medium and ex headbutt. Ex headbutt is good way for you to get closer the distance, if it cannot hitted by the kara uppercut
Sumo splash cannot get in due to Sagat is a tall character. Sumo splash on block is minus 4 for fierce sumo splash and minus 3 frame for other sumo splash. It can punish by his croach weak punch cancel into uppercut
His punch and kick hitboxs are too far, honda always lose during whiff punishing.
I agree with you that this is still a very bad matchup for honda and still need capcom to do something to rebalance for it.
I think cammy, feilong, sagat still S characters. Charging characters can reach A character only. The buffs cannot empower too much.
Let’s wait and see.
Alright, I watched the stream with USF4 this weekend - Combofiend was there and commented on some of Honda’s buffs:
the bad news: Ex Hb is more punishable - it seems now is -9 on block and fall closer to the opponent. It remains to be seen how much punishable is.
the good news: U1 is indeed the one who got the start up reduced - now is 8fr start up, AND - Combofiend confirmed you can combo into it from Hands !!! It will be character specific and space dependent, but regardless, this is just AWESOME.
Alright I had some tests running. One of my friends went to the lock test and confirmed me that Evil Ryu can punish Honda’s Ex Hb with cr mk.
If this is true, then Akuma will also be able to punish us with sweep, Sagat with st lk xx, Chun li with B+MK and far Mp.
This is not good - if you have the chance, you should tell Combofiend about this and slightly increase the knockback for Ex Hb to avoid this - if you can go to a location test, or on twitter, etc.
I will just copy paste here what I wrote somewhere else:
" - Ex Headbutt nerf: I understand this change, and I accept it. With the Ex Oicho buff, it’s fair. The only thing I would like is - just a tiny bit more knockback on block. Reason:
Right now, Evil Ryu is able to punish Ex Hb on block with cr mk xx big combo - I tested it, and it works. Sweep works, too.
Even worse, Akuma can punish it with sweep - this is terrible, since Akuma already owns Honda’s soul when knocks him down.
Sagat can punish with st lk xx whatever, Chun Li with B+MK target combo and far Mp.
Making Honda’s Ex Hb less abusable is fine, but not at the cost of making his bad matches even worse.
Solution: Ex Hb knockback should be slightly increased - only a little.
In v.2012, Ex HB on block leaves you aprox. 15 small squares from the opponent (in training room - from honda’s foot tip to opponent’s foot tip)
Evil Ryu’s cr Mk has a range of 7 squares.
Akuma’s sweep has a range of 7.5 squares.
The knockback for Ex Hb should be reduced from 15 squares (as it is in v.2012) to 8.5 - that is a big nerf, almost halved.
It will acomplish the goal of making this move less abusable, while in the mean time avoiding making Honda’s life even more miserable in his bad matches.
Characters that struggle against Honda will still be able to punish ex HB:
Blanka with far Hp (it has a range of 9 squares) for 120 dmg
Hawk with far Hp (range - 10 squares) for 120 dmg
Guy: far Mp xx slide (range - 10 squares) for 170 dmg and a kd
I think this way would be perfect - characters that struggle against Honda will have an easier time, but those who already beats him shouldn’t beat him even worse.
(so from the curent build, the knockback should be slightly increased to 8.5 small squares, so Akuma can’t punish it with sweep)."
But to end on a more cheerful note - UltraDavid was talking on his show about USF4 - he went to location test and played it a lot. He named top 5 characters that impressed him and that he thinks will be good - he mentioned Honda among them. But ssshhhh, don’t tell anyone, haha.
Ex. headbutt should be buff instead of nerf. It will make the bad matchup more worser. I hope capcom can increase the damage of ehonda. Even the changes in usf4, it cannot make honda increase a tier or win a touranment.
Emanuelb should tell combofiend and report it to capcom.
Thanks to EmanuelB’s report about E.Ryu’s c.MK and Akuma’s sweep, I was able to guide KingBlackToof about Honda’s EX hb pushback on block.
Also I thought it was necessary to mention Honda’s ultra 1 startup was reduced and not super. (since EHubs, srk and reddit have it mistranslated in their changelogs)
I’m going to download this most definitely and check out what’s possible to do with hands -> ultra 1
after fiddling around a bit, I discover that you can punish ex headbutt anywhere on the screen with reversal ultra 1.
Take note that you can only punish it when stand blocking, it doesn’t work when you crouch.
MP headbutt is also punishable by u1
Got to spend about 2 hours playing the newest build of USF4 at Capcup on Saturday and used only Honda. Here’s the run down…
-U2 is zero frame and has good range. Cannot jump after flash.
-U1 is 9 frame startup. Cannot combo from HHS anymore. Although I didn’t try to do it from the extended HHS.
-Ex HHS gives an extra frame on hit. So the jab link is now a 2 frame link. Pretty fun. I actually did Ex HHS, st cl Mk xx HHS just for fun.
-EX HB very punishable on block now. If Honda is in the corner and EX HB gets blocked, you land right in front of them for full punish.
-Mp HB cannot be punished by Ken’s step kick on block anymore. Seems to be safer overall.
-Ex Oicho is fully invincible. Catching limbs all day and interrupting fake block strings is pretty fun. Honda can mash just like a shoto now.
-Jump mp is better but still loses to far anti airs
-St Hk is nerfed a bit
-Jump Mk crossup hits better now.
