Ok, the slightly revised <u>Buff List</u>. I also added explanations:<br><br><b>E. Honda</b><br>
<br>
- <u>far HP</u>: +20 dmg (100) from the 4<sup>th</sup> frame<br>
- <u>Oicho</u>: +10 dmg for L,M,H versions (170-180-190)<br>
- <u>L Headbutt</u>: +20 dmg (120) first 2 active frames<br>
- <u>H Hands</u>: +14 dmg (119)<br>
- <u>Shikofumi</u>: reduce the start up by 7 frames (23)<br>
- <u>Hands</u>: - M hands/ extended M hands: buff the hitbox for both (expanded
for better connection)<br>
- H. Hands: +2 blockstun (+5)<br>
- Ex Hands: +1 hitstun (5); buff the hitbox (expanded for better connection)<br>
- <u>Oicho</u>: - for all versions, in the corner, on hit, throw animation
doesn’t end with Honda having crossed over to the far side<br>
- Ex Oicho: +5 strike invincibility frames; reduce the range to 1.20 (from
1.52)
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”> </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>Explanations: </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>[details=Spoiler] Honda was never broken in Super, so
the amount of nerfs he got is simply stupid. From Super to AE he lost 205 dmg,
and from AE to v.2012 another 30 dmg = 235 dmg loss, same as Yun from AE to
v.2012 – except Honda wasn’t anywhere close to ae Yun’s level. He also got
other nerfs, Ultra 2 was destroyed, hitbox nerf for ju mp, blockstun reduction
for hands, etc.<span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span>He also didn’t received
any significant buffs since vanilla. For a character that was never considered
broken and never won a major, all these nerfs are plain stupid. If Capcom don’t
want defensive characters, they can simply erase Honda, Sim and Guile from the
game, there’s no need to make them mediocre. </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>I think it is common sense to
undone part of the nerfs he received:</p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Give back half the dmg for HP:
100 dmg (it was 120 in Super, 140 in vanilla !!). I can understand Capcom not
wanting Honda to have a 120 dmg poke, but making it having less dmg than MP is
stupid, esp. for a poke that has 10 frames start up.</p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Give back half the dmg for
Oichos: they are Honda’s main tool for opening people up, and Oicho was
traditionally one of Honda’s feared weapons in ST</p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Give back 1/3 of Hands dmg (it
did 140 dmg in Super): I can understand reducing Honda’s bnb dmg, but not at this
degree (35 dmg reduction ??)<span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- L HB: a completelly uncalled nerf
– why would you nerf an antiair tool, especially one that is slow (13 fr start
up), and needs a charge ? Give back the dmg partially (it did 130 in Super) </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>Honda is supposed to have big dmg,
that’s his character archetype, it always was. He has no reliable comeback
factor, and a terrible oki game, so landing big dmg is the way he wins. </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- H Hands: give back a part of the
blockstun he had in Super (he had +6). Hands are Honda’s main pressure tool. It
needs to be advantaged enough that holding up, backdashing or mashing a 3-4
frame normal wont defeat the second hhs. Honda has no true strings, no 3 fr
normal, and his cr lk is 5 frames so I dont think this is a lot to ask. </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>Some characters like Akuma or Seth
that have many tools at their disposal can afford to have some of them not
being usefull. But Honda doesn’t have many tools, so he can’t afford to have
useless stuff:</p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Shikofumi: Capcom decided to give
him an unique attack, but right now this move is complete garbage – at 30
frames start up, obvious animation and requires Honda to give up charge, is
completelly useless. Considering that Shikofumi is Honda’s only overhead, and
that Honda’s mix up game is far from stellar, I think it would be correct to
make this move more usefull. Even at 23 start, Shikofumi would still be one of
the slowest overheads in the game, but at least it would be an option that
Honda can use it occasionally, spicing up his gameplan and making him more
interesting to play. It’s also a cool move, it’s a waste not to be
usefull.<span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- M Hands: right now Honda players
have very few reasons to use this move, since it pushes forward less than
fierce version, so you can easily miss hits and get punnished. One way this move
might become more usefull is if both M and extended M (Renda) hands would
receive a hitbox buff. Honda has some very interesting combos involving M hands
and Renda hands, but unfortunately, those combos works only on 5-6 characters
and are very unreliable, being very space dependent. Honda also has a combo
into ultra with Renda hands, but it works on 4 characters, and only 1 works
both standing and crouching. Considering Honda doesn’t have much diversity in
his combos, this buff would spice up Honda’s game, and make him more
interesting to play. It would also give Honda players a reason to use M Hands.
Also, since Honda has very poor comeback factor, and both his ultras are bad,
giving him more ways to land his ultra should be ok, and Renda hands would have
a reason to be used. The combos would still remain heavily character specific
anyway.<span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span><span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span></p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Ex Hands: right now this move is
almost never used. The only time you see it is when someone mistakes his inputs
and does the moon walk. The whole purpose of Ex hands is to allow for more
advanced combos, to be a bridge in combos. Problem is, right now Ex hands
allows for 1 frame links only. Now, other characters also have 1 frame links,
so that shouldn’t be a problem, but this ex hands 1 frame links are unplinkable
(unless it is used start buton), and the timing is very unnatural, since
there’s a big gap between links. Even more, because ex hands has a lot of
animation, the opponent has plenty of time to mash a reversal/ ultra, so if you
miss the link, Honda player is guaranteed to a eat a fat punish, unlike other 1
framers (Rufus, abel, others) that if missed are mostly safe. Even worse, Honda
waste 1 meter bar, which is huge for Honda. Simply put it, right now the
risk/reward is not worthy, so nobody is using this move in a serious match.
Considering outside ex hands, Honda doesn’t have much damaging combos, and that
ex hands are also very character specific, I think it should be fair to make
them usefull. The hitbox buff would also help so some hits doesn’t whiff on
some characters, and the last hit connect with more characters, allowing these
combos to be a little less space dependent and work on more characters. The
combos would still remain difficult, need ex meter (very valuable for Honda),
and character specific, but this would allow Honda to land more damage in
combos (right now his standard punnish does 265 dmg), have a reason to use
meter in combos, and make him much more interesting and fun to play. </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Ex Oicho: another useless move. 2
out of 4 ex special moves are useless right now for Honda (ex hands and oicho).
While for every other character that have an ex command grab, this move have
some special abilities that gives a reason to be used, in Honda’s case, ex
Oicho doesn’t have anything – it has 0.02 more range than L Oicho (completely
irrelevant), and 10 more dmg than H Oicho (no Honda will ever waste 1 bar for
this).</p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>By giving the invincibility, the
move would have a purpose in Honda’s arsenal. This would help Honda a lot on
wakeup, because right now Honda’s fastest reversal has 8 frames start up, so
Honda can be easily safe jumped by almost everyone. Honda is supposed to be a
defensive wall, a tank, the ultimate defensive character, but unfortunatelly he
can easily be abused on wakeup by vortex characters. This is out of Honda’s
character archetype – I understand that Akuma is supposed to give Honda
problems with his zoning game, that’s Honda’s traditional weakness, but it’s
not understandable why Honda has to deal also with Akuma’s vortex (same case for
Seth match). This buff would help Honda in some of his bad matches, and would
also keep him true to his archetype – this would also be an awesome throwback
to ST Honda, where Oicho was an awesome reversal. Range should be reduced
accordingly, since keeping the current range would be too much (ex Oicho will
have the shortest range). </p>
<p class=“MsoNormal” style=“line-height:150%”>- Oicho: In ST, Ochio throw would
swap positions except in a corner. In SF4, Honda is generally at his strongest
when the opponent is cornered and he is crouched just outside. Not only is
Honda at his strongest, but Ochio throw specifically is strongest at this
point. It would be great if Honda <span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> </span>not
corner himself and (more importantly) give his opponent the entirety of the
playing field to back away and go back to keeping Honda out with
fireballs/whatever. Honda doesn’t have a corner carry move, he is a defensive
character, a charge character, so it’s not like he can easily put his opponent
in the corner. But if he does this, he should be rewarded more. This buff would
most likely affect mostly Honda’s bad match ups – the matches where he needs to
go on offensive, and less his good ones, where he usually just turtles. It
would be a big help in matches like Ryu/Sagat/Guile, when Honda finally corner
them to be able to put more pressure on them. It would also be another nice
throwback to ST days. </p>
<span style=“font-size:12.0pt;font-family:“Times New Roman”;mso-fareast-font-family:
“MS Mincho”;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:JA;mso-bidi-language:
AR-SA”>These are all simple buffs, with unlikely side effects, that would make
Honda stronger and more interesting to play, while keeping him true to his
archetype, keeping his traditional weakness and traditional bad matches, and
not make him broken.<span style=“mso-spacerun:yes”> [/details]</span><br>
</span><br>
. I will post there the sugestions.