Just saw this^
sooo… cr LP xx HHS xx RFA lvl 1, U1 = 145 + 96 (12080%) + 357 (51070%) = 598 damage…
edit: RFA does 50% more damage… forgot that too… damn
Your calculations are a bit off Robertson
Alright, this are the results considering the latest changes to my usf4 combo list. (taking into account that ex rfa does 1.5x dmg and scales like normals do)
c.lp (40), f.hhs (154), ex rfa (12080%), ultra 1 (348~510*60%)
= 405~502
c.lp (40), f.hhs(157), f.hhs (15480%), ex rfa (12070%?), ultra 1 (348~510*50%)
= 451~532
j.mk (90), c.lp (40), f.hhs(15480%), ex rfa (12070%?), ultra 1 (348~51050%)
= 436~517
j.mk (90), c.lp (40), f.hhs(15780%), f.hhs (15470%), ex rfa (12060%), ultra 1(348~51040%)
= 467~532
c.lp (40), f.hhs(154), super(40080%)
= 420
c.lp (40), f.hhs(157), f.hhs(15480%), super(40070%)
= 473
thanks Angerus i still am trying to learn how scaling works. So say an ultra is the 3rd hit of a combo, it gets scaled to 70%? but if its a 2nd hit it remains unscaled? my friend told me DP FADC ultra 1 w/ ryu is unscaled? maybe hes wrong?
ok 500ish damage though, still better than 420 if its a matchup where you probably wont use u1 for 3 bars (assuming you have a decent chunk of ultra meter)
another thing i was thinking off… matches where you are using u2 you will be able to hit it if you score a hands combo is pretty nice so you can still roll with u2 in those matches
one more thing this might be really stretching it but if they are in the corner and you’re camped on top of them you could potentially EX Headbutt someone point blank and if they block it then you Red FADC that shit, it would be really hard to escape (especially since no one EVER FADC’s a headbutt lol!) obviously if their reversal is an armor breaker it would beat it
Scaling works like this:
1st attack = unscaled
2nd attack = unscaled
3rd attack = 80%
4th attack = 70%
…
An ultra counts as 2 hits, that’s the reason it stays unscaled when performed raw, gets a scaling of 80% when performed after 1 hit, 70% when performed after 2 hits and 60% after 3 hits.
A dp fadc ultra should scale the ultra with 80%.
I myself am really surprised it does this much dmg, it even surpasses super damage in some ways, even when the ultra bar is barely filled (50%).
Yes, you could also use RFA to combo into u2, but sadly I think the damage is almost the same as super and you don’t get the best bonus; corner carry. (You do get a solid safejump setup, though.)
EX (Red) Focus attacks don’t gain armor, so it doesn’t matter if their reversal is an armor breaker or not.
Thanks for breaking that down. I get it now.
I’m just trying to think about how HHS will cancel to red focus level 1, is the startup going to be faster or something? Just can’t picture how it would look / work.
The big positive of Red Focus to U2 though is its only 3 bars instead of 4. Leaves you with an EX headbutt. That’s the biggest thing that fucks me over with Super. normally I safe jump and follow up with at least a blocked hands and I get close to half a bar though. I would try to just use it if it’s gonna end the round. Never considered the safe jump options. Could almost count on 2 hands the amount of times I have actually landed u2 haha, i fuck up the input SO often on that move, i really hope it gets easier with the 720 motion. i should hit the lab with gief this weekend and get practicing. IT’s almost just like a mental “fuck you” to land a u2 on someone because you see it so rarely. But yeah it’s not a reason to take it over U1 its just if you are in a matchup where you’d prefer U2 then I’d take that red focus in a lot of scenarios.
As far as Double ultras the only one I’m thinking I like both is probably Akuma. Maybe cammy, maybe theres another one im not thinking of (a lot of people like u2 anti-grappler as well apparently but go u1 for example lariat meter build punishes, so i could see some use there as well) honda deserves 75% damage just live everyone else, thats a joke that they think his ultras are too strong other than the fact that u1 does a fuck ton of damage. imo u2 should do more than u1 simply due to lack of utility!
I wish Honda could do something after his headbutt fadc in the corner…
Even if it’s just a c.jab or FAlvl1 or something.
Look at about 9.10, second video found here:
Hondas U1 seems to travel a lot faster. Anyone agrees with me on that?
Yep, it does look like is faster. Also, in the same video, at 05:58 Ex hb on block - I don’t know what to say, is worse, but I’m not sure how worse. And during the match against Ryu, LorDvd went for and Ex Hands link successfully.
Ladies and Gentlemen, SUPER HONDA IS BACK IN BUSINESS.
That’s cool and all, but edition selection is just a mode, points and tourneys will be ultra exclusively imo.
After IVGC LordDVD stated : jump mp nerfed back to 2012 version, ex hands unsafe on block, ex oicho no invincibility whatsoever, ex headbutt punishable by almost everything on block.
More nerfs for no buffs, except for the U2 range buff. Great stuff, I guess i’ll be playing another char…
Why would they make ex hands unsafe on block?
being neutral was fine wasn’t it? I’ve never heard anyone complain about it.
E: Btw, I just noticed something else while checking the latest changes on capcom unity and other sites where it’s posted.
In one of the first builds, Honda gained 1 extra active frame on his buttslam, but looking now at the latest changes, it’s not listed there anymore… so did they take that away as well?
So…now with USF4 and the chance to pick Super E.Honda, would that be our best option ?
If you’re talking about Edition Select. It’s an optional selectable mode, but afaik it’s not something to take seriously.
It won’t probably be used for main tournaments (maybe side tournaments) and I don’t think you’ll be able to use it online in ranked.
But to answer your question; Yes vs most matchups.
This is downright stupid. My only hope is that LordDVD was exaggerating (last time he also said something about Lp Hb being full invincible). If this becomes true, I won’t even be touching Ultra. I’ll play Edition Select and that’s it.
well we have at least one more build for something hopeful to happen. it just doesn’t make any sense. why take a character like Guile who was already doing fine and give him massive buffs and then take a character like Honda who hasn’t done shit since super and nerf him even more? i actually would have been 100% for edition select being the tournament standard. I don’t care about vanilla sagat, sagat is like one of my best matchups. AE Yun? I would have probably went Ultra Honda and utilized delayed wakeup.
Someone post a link to these changes please.
Stupid nerfs, I don’t wanna even play anymore fgs
How many people attend tournaments anyway?
Personally, I believe a lot of people will enable Edition Select mode in their endless games, even serious players. I play serious to, but combined with fun play.
I would actually say vanilla Honda is the best, better than Super. He got U2 in Super, but while good, it had worse range than even the current version - 0.9, basically same as the regular throws. Imo it was more of a gimmick. Plus, in most bad matches, I pick U1, anyway.
On the other hand, in vanilla Honda had: health 1100 (instead 1050); far st Hp did 140 dmg (instead 120), nj Hp did 140 dmg (120 super), jump fw Hk did 130 dmg (110 Super). Other smaller stuff was Super being faster, u1 having more invincibility, cl Hk having better frame advantage.
I think it’s more up to taste, but I’ll go with vanilla Honda.
Vanilla Honda is definitely up there, and imo would be a great pick against all other characters where you wouldn’t pick Super Honda.
You make solid points to back up what V.Honda has and it’s true, The damage and health difference is certainly something that shouldn’t be brushed aside easily.
(Although super was only faster by 1frame, and ultra only has 1 additional invincibility in vanilla, meh)
The biggest things that differentiate V.Honda with S.Honda is that S.Honda has way more options to control the match and escape vortexes.
- S.Honda’s backdash (and also focus backdash) was airborne from frame 1
- Jab headbutt gained invincibility (and is reliable to AA and beat normals)
- EX Headbutt gained more invincibility and served as our favorite AA (or anti cross-up) tool that we still use to this day.
- U2 scares the living shit out of everyone as soon as we empty cross up people. It doesn’t mean we need to use it, just having it stocked changes everything.
- Headbutts can go over low projectiles
- You can save meter more easily and go for more supers since we have a jab headbutt as AA (and sometimes even as anti pressure cough boxer dashpunches cough)
backdash, Jab and EX headbutt are absolute killers and can make matchups A LOT easier and shut down character’s options.
It’s extremely hard to open Honda up in super once he has a lifelead.
In matches where you don’t need backdash, jab and ex headbutt, then I say, go nuts with Vanilla Honda