It would be interesting if only one of the oicho versions (for example medium punch since there’s 0 reason to use it) didn’t cross up.
Kind of like how Marduk’s fierce Gator slam in SFxT leaves the opponent in front of him while medium and lp version leaves them behind him.
that would be Awesome ! HP Ochio Throw like ST ! what about throw invincible too ? or is it too much ?
Orchit mp version will not change the side after throw. pls inform to combofiend and capcom
Angerus’s idea is very interesting - only Mp Oicho not cross up on hit, since is the least used one. Very nice idea (also I wouldn’t mind all oichos not cross up, considering the dmg nerfs and the fact that oichos don’t give us enough time to set up anything)
what damage nerfS?
In Super, Oichos did 180-190-200 dmg. Now they do 160-170-180.
ahhh ok gotcha 
I posted something on Capcom’s forum, pretty much what we decided here but with an extra suggestion
MP Ochio Throw: cannot cross on the corner ( like ST ), throw invincible and faster recovery on hit so we can create a setup against the enemy.
Reason: mp Ochio Throw is not used at all in a battle, range in bad and we’d rather use LP version than Mp, at Least make it not cross on the corner, so we can give it some use and with faster recovery we can have some time for a setup, also making it throw invincible we can use it like back in ST. We can still have the same damage.
Cr. LK: +3 on block (from +2) and +6 on hit (from +5)
Reason: so far cr. lk is hard to link it with another cr. lk ( 1 frame) and when you are fighting most of the time not even plinking helps, also on hit, we cannot plink cr. lp and we get a reversal whenever we try our little combo, cr.LK, cr. LK, cr.LP, HP HHS. Making it the way i suggested, it would help honda to pressure a bit and it won’t him OP or something like that.
Far standing HP: Hitbox with antiair properties and reduced the startup to 7 frames (from 10)
*Reason: *This moves it suppose to be an antiair, HOWEVER it BARELY works, it best case scenario it will trade since it is very slow (10 frames ), it believe it was 7 frames start up on ST, so it would be great to have it with 7 frames, it won’t make E.honda broken at all and with this buff it will help honda to go offensive, since whenever we try to go forward, if they jump, the backdash won’t help at all because it is so short.
Up to now,what we got from the test centers are great so please do not remove it.
I hope you read this Combofind and try to test these suggestions on one of your test centers.
Thanks a lot
I think I’ll make a capcom unity post of my own soon.
I’ve seen posts so far of people that dare to request some of the most absurd things on unity that don’t make sense, just to make Honda a braindead character.
You are talking about my post ?
^lol I don’t think so. There are some pretty ludicrous requests on those forums though. I need to post about the oichio thing still. I really want that to happen. Combined with what he has now(current build) that would be all honda needs.
Anyone else go to DTN btw?
def not. he is referring to people asking for honda to have a fireball, all headbutts to pass through all fireballs etc.
The fact we are getting ex oicho invincible (will actaully replace many up-close ex headbutts so we dont need to worry about pushback punish), FP hhs -> u1 (with no damage nerf to u1 which blows my mind), delayed wakeup, u2 buff, i am not even really mad about the ex headbutt nerf. people punish it as is already. all it takes is a jump back. the rest of the stuff is whatever, its good, its needed, but i was getting by fine without it. all in all i’d say hes majorly improved and nothing should go, he is in no way broken.
corner bullshit (left side of screen fake crossups) is the #1 thing i lose to(cant be headbutted anyway) you have to block cross up then all of a sudden in front, now at frame disadvantage, guessing between frame trap and throw, press a button you’re eating ultra (with potential OS’s in there it just makes it braindead… KEN!!!) delayed wakeup gives you 1 extra chance to defend before being forced to block that shit.
i foresee vega being a very bad match. red focus will now beat ex sky highs though which is awesome. he’s gonna get a lot of dmg on punishes now though. he will combo either with his buffed frame adv. he will be harder to meaty now with his fully invincible reversal.
I think Poison is going to be tough. her zoning is pretty good in sfxt and she has good range with the whip. I can see this being actually our new worst matchup.
i saw fei long is getting nerfed. i dont think it will affect the matchup too much, maybe lp headbutt can’t be rekkad now. our buffed u2 will obviously help tremendously, also ex oicho.
akuma + seth wont be as bad now. delayed wakeup is really all you need. will probably choose double ultra in these matchups.
dhalsim and chun i dont think will change just because you can already pressure them so well as is… so with ex oicho you should be able to do work once you’re in. jump mp buff and mk will help slightly. more vital for chun and more dmg for sim but extra 10 dmg is peanuts vs. honda.
Guile is gonna get a bit harder. no more free cross ups with u1 stocked. the rest of the stuff is not much of a concern vs. honda.
Sagat is actually going to get easier. tiger knee buffs dont scare me. added pressure of ex oicho is so good. no need to challenge tiger upper with ex headbutt. MP/EX oicho not putting you in the corner would help. u1 buff is amazing since sagat is already easy to u1. he got nerfs to his ultras so you can be a bit riskier.
Overall our good matches are likely to be still in favour but not as easy. The majority of our bad matches are not so bad. Honda is seeming a lot more tournament viable. the utility of hands -> u1 changes things so much… 1 good jump in can be a game changer. im assuming you will have to hit very deep for full or nearly full frame advantage to hit hands u1 though cause it looks tight as is (2fr link). still promising though. divekick shenanigans can get red focused. im pretty happy with whats going down the more i think about it despite losing the ex headbutt, its probably for the best to reserve that for anti-air anyway. been getting punished a lot for it when trying to get people off me.
Let’s create a post on Capcom Unity and we can post our thoughts there then
Haha, no I wasn’t referring to your post. It’s pretty much what Mike said. ‘people asking for honda to have a fireball, all headbutts to pass through all fireballs etc.’
The damage for ehonda normals is not enough while comparing with dudley, feilong etc. I hope his normals like Stand far HP HK should return to 140.
Fierce HHS return to 140. Orchit 180 190 200 ex orchit for 220. It is fair while you comparing with those characters who can do option select into ultra.
Hit box of sumo splash upward and downward can be buff.
The speed for down forward HP can increase the startup frame to 5 frame.
8HP moving distance can move more distance in the air and it can be charged when honda in the a
Ex headbutt fireball invincible and It cannot be punished after all fireball characters on block.
In all honesty, I think the best for Honda right now is to keep all his buffs he has received (Ex Hands, Ex Oicho, Ultras, jump Mp, etc). If he keeps them, it’s great.
The only things he could get in my oppinion:
- Ex Headbutt: pushback increased from 7 to 8.5 squares: no need for Akuma/Chun/Sagat to punish us (also, if Lp Hb gets full invincibility, not even this one is needed)
- cr Hk: start up reduced from 14fr to 11 fr; active frames increased by 1 (->3)
- Shikofumi (stomp): start up reduced by 6fr (->24), and cancelable frames changed to 9-26
Both moves are completely useless right now, I can’t think of a good reason why not to make these changes.
I would love for Oichos not switch up on hit, but a friend of mine made a modded version for sf4 and he said it was a pain in the ass to make oichos not switch sides. This might be a reason why Capcom is not bothering.
I would also like st Hk to be 0 on hit (in addition to becoming -6 on block) so Chun and Ryu can’t punish us on hit
And Hp Hands to get more blockstun (so we can apply pressure better - Hp Hands were +6 on block in Super, now are +3…)
I would also like that far st Mk gets 1~2 more active frames, so is a better poke.
Of course, very usefull, but quite controversial:
- Ex Headbutt 2nd active frame to be fireball invincibile, OR one of the regular headbutts to have the first 3 active frames covered with fireball invincibility.
Anyway, we need to play smart: we got a lot of goodies so far, so the priority is to keep the curent buffs - if you post to CU, don’t forget to say that we really like what Honda has received so far, and that we hope these changes will stay.
And if Capcom think Honda could get an aditional buff (or 2…), this is what you think it would help him (and give your sugestions. But don’t be too greedy, haha)
the EX headbutt pushback - i think everyone on planet earth agrees this the 8.5 squares is perfect… i hit up combofiend and mike ross on twitter. if someone makes a mention on unity - which im sure it has, then we’ve covered our bases. i dont know what else can be done other than inform more people about it. i have made mention to it on the boards here + on reddit.com/r/sf4. i will shout it out in my next video even.
as for the sweep + overhead i agree they would be nice changes but even with the changes i dont see myself implementing them any more than i currently do. i do have uses for both currently but they are few and far between and i dont see that changing a whole lot even with the drastic frame reductions you have suggested.
i can see the graphics not lining up for that oicho in corner. i will normally lk buttslam to get back out of the corner after i oicho it usually works. the nj FP trick works too but also punishable. would be nice to just not have to deal with that extra step and be ready for the next mixup. sometimes i just double oicho lol works more than you’d think.
Okay, so what is the plan? are we gonna create a post on capcom unity ? we gotta move soon !
okay guys ! i just created one thread for E.Honda
Come on guys is NOW OR NEVER !
I’m afraid that thread might be closed - they made the USF4 changes request thread just so individual threads stop appearing. I think if everybody is giving his thoughts in the official thread, it will be enough.
But if your thread will not be closed, I will post my thoughts there.