As someone that has played fei since vanilla, all I have to say is the whatever happens to him, I’ll still play him exclusively.
It wouldn’t be too hard to smooth out some of Fei Long’s top tier outliers.
- Reduce Chicken Wing damage by 20 on all versions on their first hit
- Make it so that EX Chicken Wing is projectile invincible only
- Reduce hitstun on st.MP so that the death combo isn’t possible
Anything else is just grinding axes on Fei Long’s neck. Most of the unreasonable damage and stuff is based around the Chicken Wing.
Amen.
Most of your changes seem reasonable to me, HNIC. It’s a lot like what I would have done as well, though I probably would leave the cr.HP untouched. I’m not sure about nerfing jd.MP hitbox and reducing cr.MK damage as well.
I probably wouldn’t mind EX Rekkas being 1 Frame less safe than they are now either. Neutral (or +1 according to Xian if the second is delayed properly) on block I feel might be a bit silly.
My little hope that will 90% likely NOT happen is far st.lk hitting low. Ah Ha. Ah Ha.
Damn a character that has been the same since vanilla is a problem all of a sudden.
Anyway, i think toning his damage down too much will make him pretty bad. Thing with Fei we all can agree on is his comeback potential isn’t as good as most do to his Ultra applicability. What made up for shitty Ultra setups and uses was his damage output with his LIMITED combos. I stress that because everytime someone talks about his CRAZY damage, they are talking about that one combo with HK CW into Cl.HP>whatever special. Yeah it does a lot of damage but not so much use now that you can be stopped on start from the HK CW now. and cl.mp>hk CW combo on select few character is situational to if your playing said character. I don’t think the tenshin needs scaling because its so damn slow and range sucks on it except for EX that it worth being able to land with its horrible recovery and use. Its a gimmick move. Now people saying damage on mk.fk>FADC>Hk Cw is too much, but your burining two meters for that everytime so it isn’t too crazy. People on say that does so much because the rest of his ex moves arent’ really that appealing to use outside of EX fk… Idk i’ll just wait and see what they do.
R.I.P. Fei Long…you’ll be missed.
If they do reduce his damage and his death combo, I would like them to fix the 3 hit Ultra and have the ability to cancel Ultra 2.
Fair trade?
i definitely agree with all of Hnics changes , some of you other Feil longs on this thread don’t fully understand how strong he actually is. I don’t play Fei long but it’s clear even to an outsider that he needs a few tweaks .
So you think Hnics changes would make Fei as bad as gen/dan/hakan etc … even though fundamentally his tools and his style of play would be unaltered apart from a few damage tweaks and no invincibility on regular Chicken wing ??? .
And quite frankly with buffed ex rekkas which can be +1 on the second blocked rekka if spaced correctly , hard knockdown off of new bnb combo which leads to a highly ambiguos vortex situation (due to jumping Mp) and his very FEW bad matchups having become a tad easier …i’d say that the trade off Hnic is proposing would slighly budge him from S tier and move him into A alongside Ken/Viper/Akuma/Yang .
Ive even tested jumping MP in training mode from a hard knockdown situation midscreen , from specific distances i can literally choose which way i want to hit the opponent if i switch between Jumping MP and Jumping Mk , does Fei really need a 50/50 mixup which can be applied off of a bnb ?. All im saying is Fei has a bit too much going for him , for me a damage Tweak on his Flame kick FADC chicken wing combo would be enough because as it stands his Flame kick and Chicken wing hit slightly too hard .
And possibly make the second blocked rekka a tad bit more unsafe so Feis are FORCED to always hit confirm rekkas rather than throwing them about aimlessly and still not be punished by certain characters who dont have a fast far reaching normal , it’s just that he is too safe right now .
Changing hitboxes and damage on rekkas would be going too far , Rekkas are fine damage wise and hitbox wise . Without an effective rekka game Fei would low Mid tier . He’s a really enjoyable character to mess around with but sometimes i feel a little guilty using him , i want capcom to remove that guilt basically .
Why wouldn’t you eh…
Too true , my character Guy only has one consistent meterless antiair which is Cr.Mp and it usually trades or gets beat by Feis J.mp . I mean at least let me anti air you Bruce .
As I fei Long player I think that he only needs slight nerfs like:
[LIST]
[]Slight damage nerfs to all versions of the flame kicks and chicken wings
[]Ex rekkas not being safe on block
[*]1 frame of extra start up on cr.mp
[/LIST]
Its funny that you brought up evo. I mean Fuddo won on pure fundamentals with the equivalent of Vanilla Ryu. A very solid and complete character. I don’t see how anybody can hate on the character, if Fei wasn’t the one who carried him. Latif was just spazing out as usual with Viper.
I’ve used Fei casually since Super and competitively since AE dropped. I’ll stick with him till the very end. I’m not going to throw away all that time that I put I to this character because of a few changes.
Only change I can think of that would make sense is:
- damage nerf on EX flame kick
I wouldn’t be surprised if they change some of his normals like how Bison/Rose was changed in AE. I don’t agree with those but Capcom took the bait from casual players and might nerf him.
Either way, bring on the AE re-balance patch. I’ll deal with it and if push comes to shove, I’ll have to use my other characters more as a secondary for Fei’s faults.
I’d rather it not be patched but that’s obvious. I’m enjoying this version, Fei vs Makoto? Fei vs Yang? Some of the most entertaining enjoyable matches you could be involved in , in any version so far.
Someone alway’s has to be at the top of the game. Is Fei Long as bad as Sagat? no chance, is he is bad as Yun? Not even close. What’s wrong with having a top tier character that’s not got any over the top bull shit and is just very very solid?
You nerf Fei Long, your top tier become herp a derp bull shit vortex characters that revolve around incredibly stupid mix ups. (yes I hate these characters)
Does anyone really want that? That’s not Street Fighter?
The people who don’t actually play the game want that, they want flashy combos and extremely unpredictable outcomes, they want “hype”, hence why they love Poongko and Latif so much, so do I for that matter because I have no problem with vortex character (I used to play Abel).
People hated Vanilla Sagat because of the tiger obstacle course, people hated Super Honda because the moment Honda gets a life lead you’re at a huge disadvantage, people hate Fei Long for…overshadowing Seth and Viper? I have no idea, for me Fei Long is just a footsie character with the most options, and that’s kind character I’m looking for, and as long as he doesn’t lose huge parts of his game I think he’ll be just fine.
I just liked Fei Long because he was the only top tier I’ve seen in this game in general that seemed like they actually required good knowledge of SF shit. Like you can’t decide to give everybody a huge damage uppercut FADC ultra to balance everyone like Vanilla Sagat. On the other hand you can buff up other character’s walk speed, fundamentals and damage output so they can better compete with a really solid character like Fei.
Again, look at Guile’s changes, he got a couple of big nerfs like the damage done by his ultras, and many nerfs to his more utilised tools such as his primary anti-airs, flash-kicks, sonic booms. His fundamental style of play, as you put it, is unaltered, but how does he stand up against other characters now? He doesn’t.
Small nerfs add up very quickly.
Very good point, I used this in the Teir thread because people are going way off track with nerfs. Talking about changing frame advantages and scaling tenshin combo’s… talk about destroying a character!
Just cut off his arms and legs while your at it. His FK, far HP will receive the damage nerf. I spoke to the VP of Capcom and I explained to his as follows. “I hate hearing players cry about Fei Long. He is the same character as he was in Vanilla. What many seem to forget Fei got nerfed from Vanilla to Super. His cr.lp/lk had a damage reduction as did his Super/Ultra. Yes in AE he got a extra hit frame on his st.lp but his biggest buff is ex rekka being safe on block. What these players are failing to notice is that the real reason Fei seems so much stronger is because the entire cast around him mainly his bad match-ups got nerfed in some manner” He then asked me “what where Fei’s hardest match-ups”? I replied “most charge characters and fire ball characters. Every other character he was about even with and it all came down to the player. What really happened is what I call the Mago affect. Mago showed the world what Fei fulls potential was. From there many players learned from what they seen from Mago and then developed it into there game”
His reply “that’s exactly what happened. Just like with any other character in the roster. If a player learns that characters full potential the tiers list will change. Yes the twins will be balanced but the rest of the cast will get a boost in some way” I kept my interview with him off the record as he asked me too but I am sharing it with you guys. If you havent seen the video here is the first part of the Capcom panel where they discuss the AE changes http://youtu.be/YGCThXZYysk somewhere in the other videos a member of the audience ask him about AE changes.
die fei long, die.
if it had to happen, id rather it be that way. i dont think theres any real chance of them just doing slight nerfs. its gonna be ugly. and id rather sacrifice the damage than to have them change rekkas or revert ex rekkas or take away the jab sweep stuff.
it seems lkike a lot when you look at it in list form, but believe me, he’d still be good. for the most part, good players arent getting hit by feis big damage stuff often anyway. i mean, how often are you landing a 3 hit cw, or how many times are you getting to land stand fierce to rekkas because a good player completely fucks up a dp. maybe once every 3 rounds?
most of what you land is rekkas and crouch fierce, and AAs. those 3 things usually do the most work in real matches, and they would work in the same manner they do now. just with crouch fp and dp hitting less hard
i dunno just my opinion. id rather give up that damage than to hear that rekkas are gonna be less safe or do less damage or be slower
If any Capcom heads are at Fight Club NYC next week I will try to get more info from them as in regards to change. I will bug Seth as well but the changes will hit arcades in Japan first so it will be like before and it might be a wait and see. Good thing is there are more Fei players so the info we get should be quicker
I’m really hoping that Fei Longs stays generally in tact in Ver. 2012. I like the matchup, and I find high level Fei Long play to be one of the most fascinating things to watch in this game.