AE matchup: Gen vs Abel

[Schiff]

On request from Dr.H…

OVERALL STRATEGY
Gen has no tricks against Abel, so we must rely on solid footsies and spacing. Mantis st. hk works very well against Abel’s far lk. Mantis st. mp is also pretty useful as usual.
As with other more classic grapplers, try to back-jump/backdash in their blockstring and hitstring in order to avoid a very likely command throw.
The good news on the other hand is that Abel has NO 3 frame normals or move (except for super/ultra), so take advantage of this.

No much need to crouch block, since only his cr.lk and cr.hk hit low. Also focus attacks are rather useless. Many Abel players will try to go for a throw in order to take advantage of their okizeme, so be ready to stand tech!

Keep Abel at such distance so that he cannot cross you up with his j.mk and the st.hp will stuff all his jump ins. The advantage is that the st.hp also stuffs all his Wheel Kicks (also the Ex one, even though you reaction has to be faster in this case).

Abel’s main tool is his step-kick, which can be used to close the distance and start a very damaging combo. Abel can cancel the step-kick into a dash… which will leave him at +1 on block, so be careful. If he doesn’t dash, it’s at 0 on block.

A good Abel player will not use moves that are not safe on block, but let’s remind them:
• Change of Direction is (on block) at -3 for the first hit, -9 / -5 (high / low) for the second and - 35 / - 44 (high / low) for the last hit.
• Wheel Kick is always unsafe on block (and except for the EX one, also on hit) but the spacing makes it difficult to punish.
• About Marseilles Roll, remember you can grab it!
Abel can anti-air Gen easily from the air but his ground anti-air is not that good instead.

Tips:

• TC2 xx Ex Hyakurenko ~ Mantis cr.hk ~ backdash ~ Mantis ultra 1 makes the ultra a crossup.

Notes:

• TC2 xx hk Gekiro whiffs.
• Abel’s most common combo for ultra begins with a cr.hp (many times after a Marseilles Roll), bait it and punish it the way you want.
• Abel’s far st.lk has 5 startup frames, and if you block, you’ll be at 0/0. After blocking, use Mantis st.mp, if you get a counter hit, you can land cr.hp or cr.hk.
• After blocking his Wheel kick, don’t do mp Hands but mk Gekiro
• When you begin a combo with cr.lk - cr.lp don’t go for the TC but do st.mp - TC - lk Gekiro.
• After getting hit by Sky Fall or Tornado, usually Abel’s okizeme will start with a Roll. If you read his inputs as 443, do a backstep, otherwise block low (this is a cornerstone against Abel).
• In close range, don’t backstep, Abel just waits for that. From step-kick, Abel will continue the pressure, instead of backstepping, block for an instant and then do a vertical jump, otherwise use st.lp
• In case of mid-range step-kick, use Mantis st.mp.
• Use Mantis cr.hp as distant anti-air. Don’t use Crane cr.hk, it’ll lose to j.lp. Rather try to anti-air him with Crane j.hk and Shakudan.
• Against other characters it’s normal to react with a throw when you see them dash towards you. Against Abel, if you see a dash, use Mantis st.lp to avoid the incoming Tornado

Anti-air:
Mantis st.hp is your friend here.

Safe jumps:

• front throw -> dash x2 -> vertical Mantis j.mk
• back throw -> cross-up Crane j.mk

Cross-up Oga (can be escaped with Marseilles Roll):

• front throw -> whiff lk Gekiro -> mk Oga
• corner back throw -> mk Oga
• after fifth hit of lk Oga -> mk Oga (very safe)
• super -> Mantis cr.hk -> mk OgaOR corner super -> Crane cr.lp -> mk Oga on your side
• cross-up Oga -> Crane cr.hk -> mk Oga

Loop:

• mk Oga -> Mantis super -> Crane cr.lp, mk Oga on your side -> Mantis Ultra

Unblockable setups:

Credits: Arakuremonku, Monzetsu, Rokotsu, Schiff, www20.atwiki.jp/ssf4

[Dr.H]

Nobody else got something to share? Definitely not the easiest of our matchups.

[ugo_2u]

Abel matchup comes down to reaction battle, Gen cannot afford Abel in front of him cos 4 tornado throws and u r dead. Sorry but I have no xperience here

[Schiff]

Option select grab on his wake-up should be good, too, since lots of Abel use the EX Roll in that situation. You’ll grab him whether he uses the roll or does nothing

[Schiff]

added a few things that were suggested by some Japanese players:

- Abel’s far st.lk has 5 startup frames, and if you block, you’ll be at 0/0. After blocking, use Mantis st.mp, if you get a counter hit, you can land cr.hp or cr.hk.
- After blocking his Wheel kick, don’t do mp Hands but mk Gekiro
- When you begin a combo with cr.lk - cr.lp don’t go for the TC but do st.mp - TC - lk Gekiro.
- After getting hit by Sky Fall or Tornado, usually Abel’s okizeme will start with a Roll. If you read his inputs as 443, do a backstep, otherwise block low (this is a cornerstone against Abel).
- In close range, don’t backstep, Abel just waits for that. From step-kick, Abel will continue the pressure, instead of backstepping, block for an instant and then do a vertical jump, otherwise use st.lp
- In case of mid-range step-kick, use Mantis st.mp.
- Use Mantis cr.hp as distant anti-air. Don’t use Crane cr.hk, it’ll lose to j.lp. Rather try to anti-air him with Crane j.hk and Shakudan.
- Against other characters it’s normal to react with a throw when you see them dash towards you. Against Abel, if you see a dash, use Mantis st.lp to avoid the incoming Tornado

[ugo_2u]

added a few things that were suggested by some Japanese players:

- Abel’s far st.lk has 5 startup frames, and if you block, you’ll be at 0/0. After blocking, use Mantis st.mp, if you get a counter hit, you can land cr.hp or cr.hk.
- After blocking his Wheel kick, don’t do mp Hands but mk Gekiro
- When you begin a combo with cr.lk - cr.lp don’t go for the TC but do st.mp - TC - lk Gekiro.
- After getting hit by Sky Fall or Tornado, usually Abel’s okizeme will start with a Roll. If you read his inputs as 443, do a backstep, otherwise block low (this is a cornerstone against Abel).
- In close range, don’t backstep, Abel just waits for that. From step-kick, Abel will continue the pressure, instead of backstepping, block for an instant and then do a vertical jump, otherwise use st.lp
- In case of mid-range step-kick, use Mantis st.mp.
- Use Mantis cr.hp as distant anti-air. Don’t use Crane cr.hk, it’ll lose to j.lp. Rather try to anti-air him with Crane j.hk and Shakudan.
- Against other characters it’s normal to react with a throw when you see them dash towards you. Against Abel, if you see a dash, use Mantis st.lp to avoid the incoming Tornado

ehmm which japanese players are those

[Schiff]

Credits: Arakuremonku (also known as Shuma Golath), Monzetsu, Rokotsu,*

[ugo_2u]

damn, thats legit then, can you transpose that to simpler english, having a little problem undrstanding them

[Kahmos]

Abels crossup is tough to notice, and I dont believe cr.hp can help there, so I suggest crane cr.hk for this one, because it can auto correct. I would suggest gekiro for this match but I would expect Abel to always be moving forward in this fight, he is easily undone by jab/short, and I like to stick to cr.lk alot in this fight. Try not to dash due to step kick and wheel kick catching you, and only neutral jump on reaction to a slow normal. Try to utilize the throw/fadc OS after a blocked step kick, that or jump back. If you can train them for that use U2 to beat the followups (axe kick and falling sky)

[Schiff]

damn, thats legit then, can you transpose that to simpler english, having a little problem undrstanding them

what can’t you understand? Tell me and I’ll make it simpler

[ugo_2u]

cLK cLP sMP TC2. does it really work?

[Schiff]

cLK cLP sMP TC2. does it really work?

sure!

[ugo_2u]

sure!

wow, I thought that worked on DeeJay only

[houzi22]

wow, I thought that worked on DeeJay only

Me too… But I thought it will only works when they are in the close range… eMM and it also works to Yoga…
If gen player who has great reaction. Abel will be really desperate… As we are not machine so abel has the chance…
Another thing : Utilize the the unblock setup aganist CViper(back throw step back jmk mantis) to abel.
The effect is like this. Abel will block the normal hight mk but the old man will land in crossup postion. And you can also control the timing for the step back than let gen land in the normal positon.

[houzi22]

Abels crossup is tough to notice, and I dont believe cr.hp can help there, so I suggest crane cr.hk for this one, because it can auto correct. I would suggest gekiro for this match but I would expect Abel to always be moving forward in this fight, he is easily undone by jab/short, and I like to stick to cr.lk alot in this fight. Try not to dash due to step kick and wheel kick catching you, and only neutral jump on reaction to a slow normal. Try to utilize the throw/fadc OS after a blocked step kick, that or jump back. If you can train them for that use U2 to beat the followups (axe kick and falling sky)

Agree…The strategy is the earlier tip. The active frame of cr hk is 5 frame now.

[houzi22]

- After getting hit by Sky Fall or Tornado, usually Abel’s okizeme will start with a Roll. If you read his inputs as 443, do a backstep, otherwise block low (this is a cornerstone against Abel).

*Fell really sick after the setup of abel`s throw. Badly need to undertand these words. *
Does it meens to block and dash like an option select?

[ugo_2u]

- After getting hit by Sky Fall or Tornado, usually Abel’s okizeme will start with a Roll. If you read his inputs as 443, do a backstep, otherwise block low (this is a cornerstone against Abel).

*Fell really sick after the setup of abel`s throw. Badly need to undertand these words. *
Does it meens to block and dash like an option select?

443 basically is the motion for a tornado throw, and I believe it means to backdash your ass out of there. in my experience it is better to neutral jump than to backdash or you may eat spin kick special thing.

and one thing houzi, pls don’t call the unblockable against viper ugo’s unblockable, it makes me sound like one Gen expert and that is really uncomfortable for me. they are starting to call me Master Gen in the community here and its quite embarassing. just say unblockable ok. It matters not who discovers it.

[houzi22]

443 basically is the motion for a tornado throw, and I believe it means to backdash your ass out of there. in my experience it is better to neutral jump than to backdash or you may eat spin kick special thing.

and one thing houzi, pls don’t call the unblockable against viper ugo’s unblockable, it makes me sound like one Gen expert and that is really uncomfortable for me. they are starting to call me Master Gen in the community here and its quite embarassing. just say unblockable ok. It matters not who discovers it.

Sorry…

[ugo_2u]

Thanks my friend.

[thanewdude07]

Wow I got wrecked up against a high level Abel player…So against able we just play heavy footie and keep it him out?