3S Makoto is starting to piss me off. She has a lot of the weaknesses of AE Makoto, but she can’t really punish those weaknesses as well as AE Makoto can. For instance, holding back and spamming throw against her seem good from what I’ve played.
What can you do to punish walking back? Unsafe c.HP or c.LK xx LP Hayate? Dash up throw/Karakusa works, I guess.
What if they spam 2F throw once you jump in? UOH into nothing? Unsafe c.LK xx LP Hayate? A dude I fight with spams that shit every time I jump in … I catch on and specifically attack low/IA EX Tsurugi, but it’s really bad risk vs. reward, except the EX Tsurugi, which doesn’t do that much. If I guess wrong I eat WAY more than I might put out, and this is an offensive game.
My favorite part about AE Makoto if figuring out an opponent’s defensive tendencies and punishing for max damage. Smell the jump, smell the throw, smell the backdash, smell the crouch tech, smell the block … free MK Tsurugi into U1, or c.LK xx EX Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi, or any of her 300+ combos for a good read.
In 3S, I feel like laming her out with defensive options like jumping and blocking high a lot is too effective. Lots of 3S videos I see where Makoto loses, it looks like that: an opponent will jump, and keep jumping, and eventually the Makoto won’t target the jump and get fucked … or the Makoto will target it, and eat big damage. She doesn’t have that power factor except for Karakusa or a tough hit-confirm into SA or “psychic hit-confirmed” SA combo’d from other means. Heck, I still have problems with people spamming c.MKs and c.HKs … I’m just lucky they’re not buffering SA into them yet. AE HK Tsurugi, how I miss you!
I don’t know, maybe I’m missing something here? Maybe it’s because I play a bit more of a footsie style Makoto (which 3S Makoto lacks), but I honestly have to say AE Makoto is way preferred so far. I miss buffering pokes! I miss punishing jumps with 328 damage instead of playing a huge guessing game every time someone jumps! I miss seeing ANY weakness and scoring big damage for it!
3s just isn’t that sort of game. you get small damage off of throws and landing a stray fierce here and there, the you do huge burst damage from karakusa -> combo or parry -> stand fierce xx combo (or low forward xx SA, or close mp -> chicken kick death combo, or cr.fierce -> aegis unblockables … etc.)
if someone is jumping away from you a lot you cr.hk them preemptively or follow them up with a jump fierce. if they don’t stop, eventually they’ll eat so much stun damage that they’ll lose anyways. if someone is throwing you out of jumpins, you might not be hitting them deep enough. if they’re really predictable you just backdash the throw attempt, see it, and punish with c.mp xx whatever. once the hayate hits they’re in deep shit, so it’s usually worth the effort to start the mixup.
a lot of her stuff is really unsafe pressure (sweep, blind c.lk -> hayate, parry bait meaties, dashing into c.mk range), but oh well. that’s why you kill them in one combo. lol.
if you’re running SA1 makoto you get a pretty easy confirm from whatever xx hayate (confirm) link SA1.
if you’re getting bored you can try SAIII makoto and see how much damage jump HK does in tanden renki compared to sfiv!
dont kid yourself, 3s makoto is a beast. she just plays really differently from AE makoto because that game is really safe in general. get a hard knockdown, run a safejump OS, get safe frame advantage, run your canned setup that forces them to block, etc. 3s is just a more free-flowing game that encourages you to guess and requires mad hit confirm skills.
-Lightning-fast overhead that’s +4 on block
-EX hayate +2 on block
-13-frame forward dash
-Dosen’t have to worry as much about mashed jabs and reversals
-If you whiff a karakusa you recover in time to be able to parry a neutral jump attack
-Has an easier time getting in there
-Much better mixup potential after hayate
-Better risk/reward on her oki game in general
-Does lots of stun in a game where the stun bar takes forever to deplete
-100% stun combos in a game where damage scaling is less of a factor
-In a game that’s more accommodating to her playstyle in general
So when Urien throws you and does aegis and hops over it’s one of his unblockables, right? 'cause damned if I can block that when I run into someone who does it.
Urien has annoying normals , but I hate akuma the most , he can do whatever he wants on your wake up … such stupidity this character … and on top of that he has that v v v + 3P which is sort of unblockable lol
I know you guys love Makoto but why not pick up another character in 3s? I just can’t do Makoto. I run Akuma/Alex under system direction and Q/Chun under tournament rules…
I think its cheap to run Akuma/Alex with SD on though lol. They both have a combo that i found to do roughly 85% damage. yeah boi. Q is fun after 3 taunts :):):):):)
I know but i’m not sure if both can be played at this point. It’ll take a long time before your hands will distinguish between which Mak you’re playing. No problem for Me since I main Q. Yeah buddy what about that trenchcoat lmao
3s? lol nah man i’m not ready at all. been spending waaaaay too much time on AE. Hmmmm maybe we can go back and forth, or you can show me some stuff on 3s. Shit is hard man.
I… may not be home though. The wife is trying to drag me to a birthday party so we may have to play some other time. I’ll get up with you if I see you on
As somebody who used to main Makoto in 3s, and who mains her in AE, I knew trying to pick her up again and relearn everything in 3s was a bad idea, so I just started learning somebody else who I thought always looked fun (Urien!). No need to mess up all my timings, had enough time unlearning 3s timings for Super
I’ve wanted to use Urien as well. The only thing that turned me off was charge partitioning for the real juggles after a hit Aegis. Is it pretty easy? Or is it an acquired skill over much, much practice?
after hitting aegis midscreen you need to partition to hop over with a headbutt for the unblockable. in the corner to do tackle tackle headbutt you don’t need to partition, you just buffer the charge before the button press. i’m terrible at it tho and never hit the first tackle high enough, so i usually just do the poor man’s combo (mk tackle, ex tackle, mk tackle, fierce).
I picked up the buffering stuff pretty easily, but I’m comfortable with charge characters anyway. I did the charge partition dash headbutt really easily when I first tried it, but I always miss it in matches so I need to brush up on it. Easier than learning to Kara-Fukiage I’ll tell you that much
charge moves have a sort of range of proper charge. you just need to make sure your partitioned charges eventually add up to be above a certain # of frames and below a certain # of frames.
obvious ones to play with:
crouch for a half second -> dash forward (holding down during the dash) -> urien headbutt
crouch for a bit -> jump forward RH (holding down) -> land ex headbutt
walk back for a half second -> dash forward (holding back during dash) -> remy LoV
I’ve noticed 3SO is becoming my high blood pressure medication. Last night, during my AE session, my salt levels hit stratospheric heights because I ran into Guiles and Roses who kept laming me out. I realize that the whole rock/paper/scissor element is incredibly strong in SF4 since the whole idea behind the game was to give it the retro feel of SF2, but that knowledge didn’t keep me from getting so frustrated that I HAD to turn the game off or risk destroying something in my room.
Despite being incredibly salty, I still want to play some SF, so I turn on 3SO and…the anger just dissipates. It’s odd; 3S should be the more frustrating experience since the execution is so difficult and parries can negate any attack, but instead, I find these mechanics liberating. People who like to play a zoning style can’t just throw projectiles over and over in a predictable manner and expect it to win. A couple of good parries and I’m in their face. Conversely, I can’t do the same strings over and over again and expect not to punished for my repetitiveness.
I agree. Too bad 3S didn’t get the same love back in the day that AE is getting right now (balance changes, ect). Back then, it was like this:
In the 90’s-early 2000’s:
Capcom: "Here’s the new game, please enjoy"
FGcommunity: "Ummmm, hella shit here is imbalanced"
Capcom: “While we appreciate your feedback, we don’t care even though you’re giving us your money. Please enjoy the game”
Present day:
Ono dresses in drag and constantly trolls us with Darkstalkers teasers. SFIV gets new characters/balance adjustments because the community wants it. lol.
Onto actual strategy questions:
I’ve mostly been OSing by combining parries and specials, but is there something like Fukikusa is 3S?
What are some low-risk follow-ups to Hayate, in case I’m unsure if the opponent likes to block or jump or press buttons? Lots of times I’m not in range for c.LK xx LP Hayate to combo, so I need to figure out what the best stuff is here.
What I’m theorizing, could be hella wrong.
Hold forward for a split second, 632 (parry OS) 14+HK.
IA EX Tsurugi. Seems to work really, really well.
c.LP if close enough or c.LK otherwise (not combo’d), s.LK xx EX Oroshi.
s.HK? Is it like AE where her leg lifts up ASAP?
