What flip does one cancel into when doing cr. hp on somebody falling down from an EX Senkugoshoha in the corner or a backthrow?
For the throw? Lk.
Not sure if this post should go here, but…
So I tried to numeralize the knockdown frames from safe jump setups on Gouken because I’m not good at “walking a bit”.
All sweeps have the same number of knockdown frames, this is visible by both sides standing up at the exact same time on sweep trade, except for the ones that wake-up late from face-up position (Cammy, Sagat, Blanka). So we know the opponent’s knockdown frame by calculating through Ryu’s sweep safe-jump setup.
Going through 3 remaining active frames and 28 recovery frames, Ryu can hold up and proceed to hit the opponent at the 40th frame (4+36) of his jump, so adding them up gives 3+28+40-1=70f, then Ryu hits them at 71st frame.
Since Gouken’s sweep has the same number of knockdown frames, he has 70-2 remaining active frames-18 recovery frames = 50f advantage, and Gouken hits them out at 51st frame. This proves that the demon flip kick, when done at the earliest frame possible, has 12 active frames (50 advantage - 27 uncancellable frames - 12 start-up frames = 11f of knockdown left, Gouken should hit them out at the 12th active frame)
Gouken’s forward grab has similar setups except he needs to forward dash once, essencially giving out the info that his advantage is 50 + 16 = 66f.
This can be created to make some meaty setups. For example, doing a sweep then forward dash2 -> overhead = 162 + 17 = 49, where the 1st active frame will come out. Since the opponent can be hit out at 51st frame, you will hit the opponent at the 3rd active frame, giving +4 frame advantage on hit (in 2012) with forced stand.
Similarly, far st.LP whiff -> forward dash*1 -> overhead = 5+1+9 + 16 + 17 = 48, so you will hit the opponent at the 4th active frame. It is harder as something like st.LP can neither be plinked nor be mashed out.
Cool stuff. The last line you have 5 (jab) + 1(?) +9 (jab recovery?) +16 (dash) +17 (overhead)… What is the plus 1?
Also, I never thought about the active frames of the sweep as being calculated into the followup. Maybe this is why I am whiffing some safe jump kicks that I thought should hit…if I hit the sweep on the first active frame? Am I on the right track?
1 is the remaining active frame. When it is 5/2/9 in frame data, the 5th frame is the 1st active frame, the 6th frame is the 2nd active frame, then it goes right into recovery. You can also do 4+2+9 instead. Don’t do 5+2+9, as it will screw up with the calculation and is wrong.
Yes, if you hit the sweep on the 2nd active frame, you’ll be put at 51f advantage instead.
vs cammy: after forward throw forward dash, which df is best for dive kick?
I use mk, not unless you threw her into the corner.
Fuck having to do this thread again!
Why you say?
Why say what? So much is going to have changed =[ Will have to re-write half of it, and then we need to do a proper combo thread. Once all that is done 2012 upper happy pills blanka edition will be out.
thanks
Ugh, I just threw up a bit.
I’m thinking that there would be a couple of new combos, but most of them will involve Denjin.
mp changes, palms have all changed, denjin and punishes, all the combos… Frame buffs. Kongo changes. And that’s if they’re done.
Gouken´s Kara-Moves
I finally came across some other moves besides the throw that you can kara and their usefulness, I would like to discuss so I can improve my understanding and usefulness of them. Besides the kara-throw, we have:
Kara-focus:
One of the best thing’s to kara with gouken. Increases focus attack range decently and allows pressure strings like corner cr. hp xx fb, cr. mp xx fb, kara focus, dash, cr. hp xx fb, repeat. This kind of pressure would otherwise be impossible without it.
One other great use that should be underlined is the ability to increase the length of the dash by a good amount. This can make dash sweep have a ridiculous range and should be a big part of gouken’s arsenal.
I will include some testing today to check if this actually allow you to dash tatsu on the members of the cast you couldn’t.
Please help me find more uses for this move.
Kara-hadouken:
Better for pressure? Allows better ex palm combos? Please help me find uses for this tactic.
Kara-counter:
The double counter that we do by plinking punch buttons while doing the counter. This should allow countering of moves we usually are not able to, such as bison’s devil reverse.
Kara-throw.
Increases range of the throw. Speaks for itself. Anything else?
**Kara-super/Kara Ultra: **From my testing, albeit possible, it’s very hard to use and the range increase is minimal, for some reason, less than a block on training mode. The Kara-taunt can be avoided by holding forward, since you can’t f+HP+HK to taunt.
Cool stuff, it helps. I still need to get familiar with his move names. DX
KARA MY BALLZ SAYS BLANKA, after I empty jump > low counter and he starts his Ultra I.
Completely ruins his fucking day.
Kara fireballs allow you to move without moving. You can also karaball after a backthrow to get a sweep as well i.e. backthrow > karaball > sweep.
I don’t do this at all but a Gouken did it to me the other day, Focus crumple backdash, dash up fireball > sweep. The ball hits them while they are considered airborn leading to a juggle. Not sure how useful it is as I have yet to play with it. After a focus crumple you are at 2 on the combo scaler and I’m not about to do the math but you can lead into all sorts of things such as EX tatsu, Ultra, super, whatever. Just depends on whether you get more damage or not.
Anything else we can kara and I’m not seeing? I wish there was a way of kara-ing kick moves, haha. Get that tatsu juggle on every char.
Now I’m going to have to try this…
If you do neutral st.hk and are fast enough you could swing into qcb and do it.