Chun isn’t that bad, she’d be a viable character if the current meta wasn’t so horrible, mostly based around generally safe 50/50 setups on wakeup. Capcom needs to get rid of all that shit (but I fear do) and then she’d be viable again.
Or give some to her too…but then I’ll probably completely drop the game in disgust.
Other than that she just needs a few adjustments:
-of course U1 juggle in the corner, I still don’t understand why they haven’t changed this yet…oh, my bad, they did in super and managed to screw it up even more. Seriously though, it can’t be THAT hard, just give a wider hitbox to the launcher or make i faster, or both…it’s not gonna change anything either way outside the corner juggle.
-ex legs should do 4 hits on every character, at least from point blank range. If for some unknown reason they can’t fix it, make it only 3 hits and buff the damage.
-after 1 hit of ex sbk, all the remaining hits should connect.
-d/f+lk was clearly overpowered in super, now it sucks. The correct way to balance it imo is to leave startup and hitbox as they are but give it the trade into ultra or ex legs back. I know some people see trades into damage as unfair, but in this case I think it’s ok cause we are talking about a super slow anti-air (12 frames), with a small range, a decent hitbox, that does only 40 damage and juggles in the less damaging ultra in the game (and when you juggle you even get less hits). Definitely not something that will steal many undeserved victories. And also I’m kind of tired of losing half my life bar because my situational AAs keep trading, while a lot of other characters can push a button at the last possible frame and beat a jump-in clean…so a trade in my favor would be nice once a round.
Those are the changes I would greenlight with my eyes closed if I was somebody at Capcom.
Then there are some other buffs that should be considered and tested:
-give lk hasanshu lower body invincibility in the last startup frames. I hate to see Chun making a correct read over a late crouch tech and getting hit by a c.lk when she’s basically landed.
-a better hitbox on the first hit of ex sbk to make it more reliable against crossups. Balance this with a bigger hurtbox in the later hits, so that poorly timed ex SBKs will most likely lose against most jump-ins (instead of getting one lucky last hit as it happens now)
-after the 2nd stomp you should be able to do nj.HK, cause after the 3rd is useless most of the times, you rarely get a chance of landing 3 stomps on a grounded opponent.
-give lk hasanshu lower body invincibility in the last startup frames. I hate to see Chun making a correct read over a late crouch tech and getting hit by a c.lk when she’s basically landed.
Kelgar
"-after the 2nd stomp you should be able to do nj.HK, cause after the 3rd is useless most of the times, you rarely get a chance of landing 3 stomps on a grounded opponent. "
You’ll have to play SFxTk for that.
I always remember Seth’s statements early in SFxTKs play tests, Something along the lines of:
'All the things you felt the SF characters should be able to do SSF4, they can do here; because it makes sense’
I was dumb founded - if it makes sense in this game, why …can’t stuff… make sense… in all games?
Hmm… While I was doing some training today, I thought about something: (This may have been mentioned before and this may even sound weird). Rather than just have changed commands on Ultra’s… what if Chun Li had notation changes in her other special moves? What if Chun Li had a HCF+P for her Kikoken instead of Back charge Forward+P? But, wouldn’t that make a few of her combos more easier? Or more complicated? Would it help her mix up game a little? (Example: air Target Combo > cr.Forward > HCF+P (Kikoken) > then HCB+MK (Forward - Hasanshu)… etc).
This might also help her ability to zone her opponent out as well. If Chun should get any buff or (positive) changes in her arsenal, they should be noteworthy and useful, but certainly not broken. Will the player be able to buffer Hosenka (U1) in time when they set up a corner combo?
What would you guys suggest if Chun should have changes in her special move notations? Or would you suggest something like that at all…?
I’m all for HCF+P on Chun’s Kikoukens, thats how it is in CVS2, Alpha, 3rd Strike, Marvel, SFxTk – really bull shit they made her charge in SF4…really.
I’m fine with SF4’s LLegs, makes execution more important and seperates players in terms of player/character evolution.
SF X Tk made LLegs HCF+K, which is okay and really makes since - considering Ibuki’s spin kicks as they are motion based.
I can honestly see Capcom continuing the motion based LLegs command. It makes Chun more ‘user-friendly’.
SBK being Charge D/U is fine and better than B/F like it used to be
Tenshoukyaku needs to be DP motion and her go to Anti Air as it was intended to be in the Alpha series, with Lk provding just a single or two kicks, Mk 3-4, Hk 4-5
I enjoy using Chun Li’s LLeg’s notation in combos. Maybe CVS2/3S Chun Li does have me spoiled in some ways. I think an HCF+P projectile would definitely do Chun Li some justice in SFIV. After all, the guys in charge of SSFIV did make a few obvious changes to other characters move set notation also, so why not have receive a HCF+P Kikouken?
Oh well.
As for anti-airs… Other than the DP motion of Tenshoukyaku… I don’t know what else to say. Other than, buff her normal moves (like df+LK in Super) or something.
What about her U2 (Kikoushou)? Should they somehow reduce the scaling on that move by making hit less times or increasing the damage output by a little (That might sound diabolical). As of now, U2 is trustworthy a quite a few match ups, but I find myself using U1 (Hosenka) more, due to its damage output and its multi-purpose usage (you can use it in a combo or as a good punish - it is a devastating punish tool for things like Blanka… or for players that may end up using a poorly timed projectile). U2 seems a little easier to combo into…
I’m failing to understand why just about every vital move she has is character specific and she ends up losing damage for it:
I knew about EX SBK hitting a lot of characters differently, but I wasn’t paying attention to it when people started discussing buffs until now in training. Yes it hits some characters (grounded or air juggle… doesn’t matter) either 4 times or 5 times for either 120 or 170 damage (assuming we land the max amount of hits on that character… of course we can always risk getting less than 4 hits too since the move is so unstable) . That’s a 50 damage difference on an EX move when other characters have regular AAs/reversals that do 150+ and it’s obviously harder to follow-up juggle characters who get hit 4 times as well. And who it hits this way has nothing to do with how much base health they have, so it doesn’t “balance out” in any way… it’s just fucking stupid. Fix her damn moves capcom.
I wouldnt care about the damage if it would just deal with Akuma, Viper and to a lesser extent, Rufus. That little upgrade would dramatically change how we see Chun
She needs most her moves fixed and/or buffed
All versions of LL should extend hitbox so that no attack misses in the middle against certain chars. Also c.mk needs a little buff in hitboxu/stun. Stomp & j.lk cries for blockstun&hitstun increase. I want instant stomp -> j.lk to be viable tactic and not just a gimmick
Ok dont fix anything about her…just give her that stomp j.lk buff please?
Hmmm crazy idea hold backward after stomp connects and chun jumps off opponent slightly backwards instead of forward. XD fun
Or db.mk backward stomp d.mk neutral df.mk forward stomp
I often like to do a neutral stomp on wakeup, some characters get hit without counter hit, and if you hit it, you can hit them with your air target combo into super
Imagine thou you can do instant stomp into stomp bounce back for j.TC and hit/block stun buff won make them srk through your mixup. The possibilities ! Yummy
Reminds me of sfxt rolento
Random changes that would ruin the character as she is now but would make her more competitive at least
-Make either her sweep have a 6-frame start-up or her fst. lp +7 on hit. Would be better than just comboing into the st. HP.
-Headstomps should have a better hit-box and more active frames. Improves her high-low-throw mix-up game. It’s not like she has headstomps, spd and a dp.
-J. Mk should be made a more solid cross-up.
-Cl. MP should be changed so that it comes out at a longer range. Will work like Cammy’s clst. HP as an anti-air.
Out of all this the thing I think she already should have is the combo into sweep.
Another thing that would really benefit her in that horrible matchup against akuma is an ex hasanshu fully invincible to fireballs like it’s in SFxT. That would maybe make this matchup not even, but definitely less frustrating to deal with.
slightly off topic: i’ve seen a few players use this move as an anti-air, but personally I never had good results with it, not even in training mode. I always prefer cl.HK for close jump ins or neutra jumps, and cl.mk to block crossups (even though it does only 40 damage). So I was thinking that maybe I am just missing something.
Well it’s got a great hit-box and it works now but I’ve noticed that the far version comes out often when I try to use it and I eat a big combo. It works nicely if you know you’re too late to neutral mk.
Changes for Chun I like to see (some are kind of out there, I know)
instant stomp with enough hitstun to combo into j.LK
cr. HP hits low
Chun is a character with a weak cross up game. With Hazanshu and low cr.LK she seems to be designed to be mix up high-low, but Hazanshu is too easily blocked. The above changes will really make her high-low game scary–cross up combo or LL loop. Would not be broken as reversals will still shut it down.
+1 frames on extended legs
HK, MK extended legs, the MK part does not count as an input
damage up on U2
These changes effectively ups her damage without tweaking many numbers. The +1 will allow LL loop to be easier and comboing into U1 to be easier. By removing the mashed MK in LL loop as an input her damage will increase do to less damage reduction
fast dedicated anti-air normal (like Sakura, Dudley etc df.LK is best candidate, imo)
much more spring on wall jump
FADCable EX SBK
These improve defense. An FADCable EX SBK is not game breaking, as it costs 3 meters to escape a bad read. Improve wall jump will help escape corner pressure and a good dedicated normal anti-air speaks for itself
I think only the first hit of cr.HP should hit low though - being able to tag players who are walking back with it (since it moves forward) seems too good.
Definitely agree with higher damage U2. Even an extra 50 would help. Disagree with greater spring on wall jump (more air time on Chun’s already floaty jump seems like a recipe for disaster). Agree with better anti-air, but I don’t think it needs to be dedicated - it’s become such a part of who Chun is in SF4 that she has a billion anti-airs, but I do think df+LK needs to be improved back to its Super state.
Not sure about your proposed headstomp change. Giving headstomp enough hit stun to combo j.LK is actually a LOT of extra hit stun. Sure it would be nice, but I doubt it will happen.
I think what would also help is if Lightning Legs had less pushback on block (pushback on hit stays the same). It would change the dynamic of Chun’s up close pressure game, allowing viable blockstrings like st.MP xx Legs from range. Not only would it break focus, but it applies pressure and does chip.
I love the way Chun plays - I really do.
But to be honest I don`t think any of the proposed changes would really help her.
It would make her winning matchups even better while not really helping vs the vortex charakters.
And as we all know: at the moment only these matter in high level play.
I can`t think of a buff that really helps her in that regard without changing the way she plays fundamentally…