Lp palm YES. That’s why I wanted hard knock down so it can be used as a rush down tool. Currently tatsu and palm serve the same purpose, they both end up zoning the opponent and if you are not in the corner both allow the opp stun count to begin droppQing before you can get to them. Hard knock on lp palm only would be great, though mp palm would be great as well. They could balance it by only allowing the hard knock down to work only if the opponent is grounded.
Gf grab- follow ups are all risky. If you do this with the opp in the corner, Gouken ends up in the corner and the opponent gets up too fast to safe jump them front or backside. Gouken also has no good options for opponents getting off the ground using reversal… Why should I end up having to do something risky or having to block after putting an opp in hard knock down. That move loses too much momentum, reduce the recovery please!!!
Lp palm front side hit box needs to be tweaked it’s still not a great move, it has a 9 frame start up and shit hit box. Wtf.
Cr mp combos with everything
FIX TATSU. Faaaaaaawwwwwwwk! It should hit crouchers, period.
Fake Hadouken:
[LIST]
[] would be FB motion + taunt (hold taunt to charge fake FB)
[]fake FB almost instant or instant recovery. i guess similar to ryu’s fake FB??
[]release taunt or dash forward or backwards to cancel
[]can “combo” from normals for mind games. eg. cl.st.LPx3<fake hadouken to throw or whatever.
[*]cause grey damage?? or hit for 1pixel(ala 3S) of health point blank? (am i asking for too much now? lol)
[/LIST]
All Gouken needs is for all tatsu’s to hit crouchers. Anything else and he would be broken. 3-5 frame dp = broken because no character would ever be able to attack with us having a true dp AND kongo. Lights into specials = broken because we deal way too much damage. And we deal way too much damage because we DONT have this option. Any buffs on palm = broken. They already armor break, on certain frames are fireball and strike invincible and ex freaking juggles to way more damage. Not to mention lp is damn near instant, the hurtbox is HUGE to where it even nullifies backdashes AND once again is armor breaking. If we had tastu hit crouchers we’d be golden. I dont even mind the worst recovery in the game because at least we would be able to cancel it on every use.
Keep in mind that everybody has a different play style with Gouken, so let’s not go down the road of calling what some may think is a good idea to being silly just because you might not agree. This game is full of silly shit, in the terms of characters having bull shit strats.
Truthfully, I think your suggestion of having Parry Having a DF Palms recovery would fit the description of being silly too b/c it would give Gouken a free jump in pretty much anytime that he wanted on most… but I’m sure you have a reason for wanting that to be so, and that’s cool b/c it’s your opinion and that’s all that matters so I respect it, so I’d rather say it would be broken b/c it would be too good, much like having a fake fireball in your opinion.
I understand what you are trying to say, just be careful b/c it could be interpreted a little differently, I don’t want to see this thread get salted too early.
I kind of agree, I think Gouken is fine the way it is.
It’d be nice if tatsu hit crouchers just so it could be FADC’d but I’m not really asking for anything.
I’ve always considered Tatsu as an AA and not for wakeup.
All tatsus to hit all crouchers…but then tatsu needs better start up to be useful, at least lk tatsu should be faster. Also, there should be a first hit confirm, like a pause kind of like with our overhead so there’s actually time to decide whether to cancel or not. This would be a really useful fix.
Yeah I believe I even once said that when I was less versed in the oddities of frame data. The situation is that projectile data works differently. Ryu has 13 startup where we have 17. Our recovery is 41(so thats 24 frames after the hadou is created) and Ryu has 45(so he recovers 32 frames after his projectile is created). So our total fireball recovery is only 4f faster than Ryu, but people reacting to onscreen projectiles actually have 8 less frames to do so.
Btw my silly comment is just because how that one change would change the Honda matchup from a weak 7-3(I hate 6.5-4.5) To a 9-1 easy and I can just easy see it getting very silly(Id love it mind you) in plenty others. The df parrychange can get so as well, but I so dont regard the move as a threat in so many matchups that I find it reasonable, but doesn’t mean it cantget silly in others. I am defintely not using silly as an insult though, I love silly things <3 (just look at my wishlist^^). Despite the text, I hope people can see I am a very jovial guy
No offense taken, I knew your point of view on it. I just wanted to throw that out there b/c it could have been taken the wrong way and you know how these boards can get. You are definitely on my good people list so no worries here. And yes, I’d say you are a pretty jovial guy and you always have good info. to share so I have and have had nothing but the highest respect for you and your craft since the Vanilla days.
And that’s from the bottom of the well,… To think of it… I’ve been pretty tame since AE 2012 came out.
BTW when I thought about GF Parry having instant recovery, I immediately thought about all of those match ups that can’t 2 hit or grab Gouken out of the air. That Balrog match up would go to 8-2 Gouken instantly.
Balrog can still sweep it on reaction, Gouken still pauses in the air begore going down and palm recovery still has landing frames, just so few that if they throw a single hit moveinto it Gouken can do any kind of follow up into it. Also I think kick ultra can pluck us out of the sky. Oh and ofcorse just c.lk(or should that be c.otherp :3) to a specisl if he has any kind of charge. It will make it harder on him and much more of a guess which is something it could use in certain matchups. I just suggest palm recovery, not removal of the aerial pause.
AE2013 is pretty much confirmed by Ono himself, however he said it’s only about system, network and interface changes, which is why I think the Gouken/Fei shortcut bug is the only reasonable change on the wishlist. I do have my fingers crossed that ono is ono and suddenly character tweaks happen too, just like how there was never going to be an arcade version or how super was going to be the final iteration. Ono can’t divulge every plan they have so I still pray daily for Karin and Gouken getting fair treatment
… on wake up flip parry can be broken with reversals, during neutral/ground game (back)jump air to air normals beat out the other flip options and stay more or less “safe” vs. flip parry. Instant flip parry recovery would be too much though…
Which is why I suggested DF Palm recovery. Like shoto Air EX Tatsu recovery is fast but is not instantaneous. It would just make the landing recovery frames 4(which for those that don’t know is the recovery of any Air Normal, DF Palm and Divekick, GF Divekick and shoto air EX Tatsus after landing except Gouken(all our air tatsus have 20 recovery frames, as oppossed to the others that have 10 landing frames and 4 on EX ) ) and no tripguard so low can’t be blocked in the recovery(but you can tech throws).
I don’t think any move in the game has instant recovery after landing (even jump has 2 landing frames when you don’t press a button, but it does have tripguard) Instant landing recovery is Marvel only I think :3
Yeah, I was more concerned about the neutral ground game. I know if it was instant I would just jump in and parry like crazy once I got an EX bar to tatsu them when the tried to jump away. I short jump a lot with GF Flip, for example I like to land right out of Sagats st. Hk range so I only get hit once. I don’t think it’s necessarily broken to have it that way, but in context to how other characters can deal with it, it might be too strong. I think we should get GF grab back to instant recovery though, and Id like to see less recovery on GF Throw that’s not asking for too much and you can hit him for trying it.
I’ve always thougt that Capcom should add more recovery or remove the armor break from Akumas palm, as it is too strong in most match ups ESP vs Gouken. They can armor his tatsu like Ken and Ryu, and give him a better hp dp in exchange. I don’t mind the recovery, if they adjusted the Armor break to tatsu and his ex flip only I’d be fine with that.
If they buff Gouken too much he’d definitely be broken.
My main asks is to just get more knock down opportunities, tatsu to hit crouches, and for cr mp to cancel to hado/sweep.
I dunno why cl. lp cant be +5 on hit since if you are too far away cl st. Mp doesn’t activate and cr. mp > cr. fp > ex palm would be too far to combo in most cases.
The one flaw I find in Gouken is he let’s opp out of pressure by popping them to the other side of the screen. I guess this is why I wanted lp palm to be hard knock down bc it does shit damage and you don’t have any real good follow ups outside of the corner to keep pressure.
But that’s just how I envision Gouken based off how I like to play.
) ) and no tripguard so low can’t be blocked in the recovery(but you can tech throws).