I picked up my first strider doom team in April of 2001. So a little less than 6 years. But then you’ve got to throw in the year and a half that i haven’t played due to shoulder injuries and being overseas.
if you ever decide to quit marvel, post up what you know before you leave the scene. That s\d knowledge has to be preserved. Especially the strats. It takes years, tons of practice and exp just to be decent with s\d. Its not easy. IMO its the hardest team to win with and learn in the game.
The s\d players could really benefit from it.
Cable vs Sentinel is the worst match up ever. But Sentinel/Doom vs Cable/CapCom is not as bad. Cross up Cable between you’re flying Sent with Doom around on the other side. Once you’re up close to Cable and have him blocking, he’ll panic because that’s when Cable is most vunerable. CapCom is the the worst assist against Strider/Doom IMO. Because most Strider players think Doom is going to get rid of that problem. Little do they forget that it isn’t a 100% of the time Doom stops commando. Commando can hit Doom too, and he hits really hard. Plus, if Striders get reckless, capcom rips off a chunk of health. Learn the Cable VS Sentinel matchup and you’ll be fine. Just don’t get hit by commando and at the same time, don’t be afriad of him. punish commando when you get a chance. Try looking for the snap out with Strider to bring capcom in. They’ll most likely tag back to whatever character, so either be ready to for a serious combo or a counter tag in to Sentinel or something.
I’ll try some of this.
The only time I usually snap is on sentinel, behind on life or if I have 2 characters during orbs.
snapping cost meter and sometimes strider doesn’t have enough of it. Snapping in the assist has won and lost me games. I’m torn on when to do it sometimes.
What you have to do vs. Cable when you’re Sentinel…
just ease in close against Cable, sure you may take some damage but just make sure you keep getting closer and closer
after you get close enough to the point where your assist reaches Cable instantly (for instance, cykes/capcom/anti-air), you go in for the kill
Here’s a short version of it
If Cable super jumps, you low fly or wave dash
If he jumps, you wave dash (may not get very far but it’s good)
If he’s on the ground you super jump, fly low, make sure you can block on unfly
Also if you have Sentinel mid-screen and Cable is about to j. hp your ass…
sj. lk him in the face
Afterwards, it’s just a high/low/throw game
Anyway, this is another reason why I play Sentinel/Strider/Tron
striders trap cannot be guard cancelled
after a few hours of trying different traps and adjusting to push blocks, striders trap cannot be guard cancelled unless the trap is fucked up somehow.
if the opponent push blocks, strider will always have the option to continue the trap. As I said earlier in this thread, your trap setup should be designed around when the opponent push blocks. If you have 1 setup, it will get guard cancelled eventually. I dont think strider has 1 setup that you can constantly do to keep the trap going. If there is though, let me know what it is and i’ll test it.
I also mentioned that striders trap can be guard cancelled in many spots which is wrong. The only time there is a hole is when the strider player fucks up a pattern.
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where strider gets hit @**
theres only a few places in the trap where strider can be hit.
- activation w\o proper block stun
- if you throw the wrong ring patterns, it will allow the opponent to call their assist and probably get away. Especially if its an AA.
- during the re-trap part. This goes numerous ways though since its up to the strider player to control the GC spot.
hope this helps someone out because its helped me out over the last few months.
if theres a particular pattern that you guys are doing and you think its unescapeabe, let me know what it is. I tried as many patterns as I could think of and they were all guard cancelled eventually. Be extremely detail about it. Like if theres a delay, where exactly in the time meter you’re calling doom etc… everything is a factor when it comes to the trap.
as far as strider goes, this thread pretty much covers all his bases. I think the rest of the thread should be dedicated to different team dynamics, match up strats and questions. I may add a few random things here and there but not that much more.
If you got a question answer away, I’m sure someone will help you out. Theres no such thing as a stupid question I suppose but lets not get repititive with the same Q’s. The only things I won’t answer are personal tricks\setups or how do I beat s\d.
I highlighted most of the important stuff in bold through out the thread. If you have to dig back a few pages, it’ll be easy enough to scan through the pages and look for something you may need.
random things
hmm throwing this out there. Does anyone else know how to make the machines walk faster? I’ve noticed this for a while now but it wasn’t up to a few days ago that I actually figured out a setup for it. The thing I dont get about it is that it has different walk out speeds which is odd. Theres something causing it to do it.
striders orb super is by far one of the glitchiest supers in the game. It seems that its possible to control every aspect of it.
if the whole glitch could be figured out, striders re-orb patterns would be different because you would have more time to land hits. Lately I’ve been trying to incoporate overheads before a re-trap. If the overhead hits, its 35% into trap. If it misses, doom is there for you to re-chain as you land.
you build more meter in the process and you give strider the extra oppurunity to land a hit. Besides, 35% life into trap is 50% with chip. Then you have another chance to land a 35% combo. So one re-trap pattern is potentially 80% life back with one meter back into trap. You get to save meter and do damage @ the same time and if you fuck it up the option to retrap is there. Its bullet proof. So ideally, you have the chance to kill a character of average defense in 2 meters. From what I’ve seen on tape and who I have played personally, no one respects striders overhead. Its time to make them pay.
the particular strat I mentioned is going to be the new way to play s\d IMO. It makes the most sense and it doesn’t hurt your meter yet you have the oppurtunity to do more damage with less. How can you say no to it? I read one of clockworks old posts once and he said that strider isn’t really about constant trap (all though it is needed). Its about landing hits into trap and doing it again. Thats wasn’t what he said word for word but it was something like that.
I tested striders overhead vs magneto’s and his faster by a few frames. I’m going to say by @ least 5 frames. That means that the opponent basically has to anticapte it and when that happens, going low is almost free. Actually thinking about it now, strider may have the fastest overhead in the game?
The problem is making that perfect blockstun for the 50/50…and character sprite sizes(while crouching)
Whats the solution?
you use ring patterns to maintain the right block stun then teleport. When you teleport to other side the rings will slide the opponent from the original way. So instead of the character sliding away from strider, they will slide into him. Its cheating the game a little but like i said, every aspect of striders orb super can be controlled somehow. Except for the activation part but I’m sure theres a way to speed it up.
all character can be hit by striders overhead except for probably servebot\roll\mega. If you timed your overhead as early as possible, you’ll hit everyone. Its just practice.
When you toss the other person into the corner from an air combo and otg with a j. LK or j. HK…
is it better to just let them pop from the ground without continuing combo and do some mix up (low/high) or to do a following combo?
I know if you otg hk, land, lp… you can set up a high/low/throw game
theres something i’m not sure of. I dont know if a force otg roll will allow the opponent to call there assist. I’ll test it next time I got some crew over to play. The very first page in this thread clockw0rk goes over whats safe after that otg roll in the corner. Read up on it. I think its page 1, post #1.
once you pop them up with the lp after the otg hits, you risk the chance of them mashing the assist button or getting throw back or getting countered hit in the process or tech hit + assist. Theres too many ways for strider to die right there. I’d just stick the otg roll call doom then activate. Its safe (i think) plus doom chip is beastly in the corner.
I was never a big fan of the otg corner combo. Its easy to fuck up. Besides, theres better, easier options that can be done there.
the only time you should ever extend combo’s is if you know that strider will win it 100%. He just can’t take a hit and you shouldn’t put strider in the situation where he could be hit. Make everything AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE.
I first time I used Strider/Doom was during the last few week of summer 2006 and I got laughed at by some jackass 
I lost with him taunting me so many times too >_<.
more about the overhead into trap
when you start working this in, it will force the opponent to push block. If they push block so you can’t get the overhead, trap is free. If someone is trying to guard cancel, all you have to do is break your strings up and let them out in a weird spot then short launch.
once someone push blocks and your on them still, you have the ability to control where the opponent gets out @. Theres too many factors to this so I can’t really explain it. I’ll be @ final round in march. Ask me tough questions there because some things about s\d can’t be explained that well online.
I’m still working on a guranteed version though that wouldn’t matter if it was pushed blocked or not which I think he has.
if you honestly want to be great with s\d, this idea has to be mastered. Strider has to hit people to win. The point of the trap is to froce pressure and go for hits. Just keep on doing it till you see where it can be used. Who cares if you lose because of it. The result once its mastered is just a more lethal trap.
30% overhead combo + 20-30%chip = max of 60% off of one hit. Its too lethal not to use it.
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this is straight from my lab of s\d experiments:**
its rare that I ever give out things out of my play book but what the hell.
after I land my overhead into trap, I charge during the combo then bomb+activate. The bomb is now there for you to mix them up with so 2 hits is now potentially 70% life + options. As of now I can only imagine 90% but I think strider has 100% kill off of 2 meters which is just god like.
if you can get a bomb+activate mixup safely and trap the opponent, take it every time you get it. The bomb does the most damaging special in the game.
one of the biggest issues for s\d players to overcome are people who can pushblock and fuck up your patterns. This even happens to me from time to time but it is easily manageable once you grasp the concepts to lock them down. When you incoporate the overhead into your game, 2 things will happen. 1. the opponent will push block you before you can get it. In this case, your trap is basically free because they have already wasted there pushblock. 2. the opponent will try to block it. The only way to actually block striders overhead is to anticapte it. Its simply just too fast. Once you know that the opponent is looking to block, go low and finish them off.
the instant overhead is something that has to be used. It gives you best case scenarios MOST of the time. The whole concept is still new to me but I see where it can be applied @. Your basically playing 2 hit kill with strider with trap.
having meter with s\d is something that everyone one of us runs into. Sometimes we have it and sometimes we don’t. If you can kill the opponent with less meter, wouldn’t you take it?
how to make your own trap patterns
this is for those who are having a hard time properly timing doom and being able to re-orb afterwards.
go to training mode, pick s\d for yourself, pick anyone for cpu and set cpu to all block.
dash the cpu into the corner and call doom as deep in the corner as possible. You’ll see that doom will chip once, pause, then chip again. Where the pause is, is where you want to attack it to keep constant block stun.
this is much different mid screen but the same method applies. The first part is setting up your chip pattern and the last part is used to re-orb.
you can use anything for a re-orb pattern. Once you understand where the holes are, you’ll be able to hold your opponent down more consistently.
instant overheads
theres 3 factors that go into this that determines how fast it is.
1- how fast there move is.
2- how fast there jump speed is.
3- human reaction speed.
for the sake of arguement, I’ll just use the following frames as the fastest possible scenarios. Strider overheads can be time late and it’ll still hit. That means it will come out in more frames. I’m sure its the same case with IM.
I dont know if all characters share the same normal jump speed. I know marrows sj is pretty damn fast. So if super jump frames are different for each character, why can’t normal jump frames be different for each. I’m sure it is though but I could be wrong
characters that have useful 2 frame instant overheads. When I say instant, I meant as is that they are doing it on the way up.
-im
- both wolverines
characters that have useful 3 framers
- strider
-wm
magneto doesn’t make it to the list because he doesn’t hit on the way up against everyone. He has to jump+ airdash dwn + attack. His #'s would be a little higher than those who can do this by doing it on the way up.
of course there are other characters who share the same #'s but i’m not quite sure if they hit all characters on the way up. Roll for instance also has 2 framer and rogue has a 3 framer.
for arguements sake lets saye IM’s nj takes 3 frames for him to make it to the height he needs for the overhead. 2 frames for his move + 3 jump frames = 5 frame overhead.
now strider. From eyeing this out, I say striders nj is faster than IM’s. So lets say strider only needs 1 frames to be off the ground and overhead to hit. 3 frames for the move + 1 frame for jump = 4 frames total.
all though IM’s move may be faster. Striders jump could be faster than IM’s which would make striders move faster. Its the total frames that count not just the move itself.
the frame #s for the moves are off of joo’s frame data. I’m making the jump #'s up but this can be tested sort of. Some bigger characters have slower jumps than the samller characters. Marrow is a prime example that some characters have different jump #'s.
now jumping up is faster than jumping upfwd so that becomes a factor too. Striders jump upfwd could be faster or slower than IM’s. Marvel is weird like that.
It would be nice though if I could get an answer from a reliable source saying that jump speeds are different depending on the character though.
I know Anakaris’ jumping speed and Spirals are slow. Colossus’ fast. I guess it matters
wall climb no more!
one wall climb by strider and he’s basically a dead man against any decent opponent. Face it, when s\d is a on roll strider has to die. Thats just the way it is :sad:
the input for wall climb is qcb+any punch but if you do qcb x 2 +p you wont wall cimb @ all. For some reason the game just give it to you. I use the double scoop (qcbx2) when I go for crouch teleports but it hit me yesterday that you could do it when standing too.
theres only a few ways to for strider to die. This takes one of those things away. It makes a differnece. Strider needs every little bit of help he needs. Don’t hold back his gameplay because something may be harder to execute.
It feels weird trying to double scoop teleports because like all the other s\d players, I’ve trained my muscle memory for shoryukens. I did the double scoop probably like 60 times in a row early today and never fucked it up. It works.
this is weird marvel buffer. The input for the teleport is reverse srk+p but the qcbx2 buffer has the motions needed for the teleprt. The teleport takes priority over wall climb. Just like how you can’t bomb with charge then hcf+k. The bird\dog will always come out. Even though you inputed the motion for the bomb, the game has to pick one a move because you’ve just done 2 in one move. Marvel has to have a priority thing it in telling the game if 2 moves are done with 1 motion, it must pick “this” one. “this” being the priority move.
easier method for overhead scoot during orbs
A guru pointed this out to me. When I started trying this out, I was doing this with one finger. I would do jump+lk, then tap lp, then scoot all with the same finger. Thats simply just toooooo slow to do.
Doing it the way i’m about to mention makes it 50x easier. I’ve been getting it consistently in training mode now thanks to it.
its like a “kara” in 3rd strike. You use 2 fingers to properly get the disered timing down. so its like this, I use my thumb to hit lk, the I use my index finger to tap lp instanly. Its kinda of like a roll. Your basically hitting those 2 buttons in less than a second. I’m being serious about that. It is less than a second. Once I perform the “roll”, I just do qcf+lk and it almost always hits.
makes it easier by far. I’m an idiot for not trying that on my own.
wall climb no more! I originally posted this on page 4 but the page rolled on me.
one wall climb by strider and he’s basically a dead man against any decent opponent. Face it, when s\d is a on roll strider has to die. Thats just the way it is
the input for wall climb is qcb+any punch but if you do qcb x 2 +p you wont wall cimb @ all. For some reason the game just give it to you. I use the double scoop (qcbx2) when I go for crouch teleports but it hit me yesterday that you could do it when standing too.
theres only a few ways to for strider to die. This takes one of those things away. It makes a differnece.
It feels weird trying to double scoop teleports because like all the other s\d players, I’ve trained my muscle memory for shoryukens. I did the double scoop probably like 60 times in a row early today and never fucked it up.
this is weird marvel buffer. The input for the teleport is reverse srk+p but the qcbx2 buffer has the motions needed for the teleprt. The teleport takes priority over wall climb. Just like how you can’t bomb with charge then hcf+k. The bird\dog will always come out. Even though you inputed the motion for the bomb, the game has to pick one a move because you’ve just inputed 2 move off of one motion. Marvel has to have a priority thing it in telling the game if 2 moves are done with 1 motion, it must pick “this” one. “this” being the priority move.