Advanced Balrog (Boxer) Mind Games + Tricks

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
301

@MrChowda:

Well, it doesn’t work on Sagat. Or maybe it’s just that I’m not doing it properly against the bald guy.

The reason it works on some characters is because when you hit them with certain jump-in attacks (j. HK, or sometimes j. HP), their hit box gets pushed downwards and away temporarily during the hitstun animation. This causes the cs. HP to whiff during the first few active frames, and hit late. This gives you a bit of extra frame advantage for landing a link into s. lp, c. lk, or c. lp.

I haven’t done extensive tests on the entire cast, but here what I know:

-Doesn’t work on Gief and Sagat.
-Works on Ryu off a j. HP (originally posted by Jav1ts)
-Works on Akuma off a j. HK (originally posted by Jav1ts)
-Works on Sakura off either a j. HP or j. HK (I used j. HK in my vid, but it works with j. HP too)

Anyway, regarding Cammy, it might work if you change the timing of either the jump in attack or the cs. HP. I say this because while experimenting with overhead FADC followups against Cammy, I was able to do OH FADC cs. HP and link one of Rog’s jabs/shorts after it.

302

Interesting stuff rainscape, your testing is probably of more use than mine hehe.

I gotta get some time to hop on the PS3 rather than the laptop version of sf4 I got. Laptop version has an inconsistent framerate which means combo fail.

More character specifics to remember with Balrog… I facepalm myself enough when I do cr. short -> HB after OH Smash on Blanka O_o

303

Great thread, i’m gonna practice some of this stuff!!

304

People on here seem to think that Rog’s Torpedo Punch ( charge :db:,:df: :k:) is mostly a useless move compared to his other dash punches.

However I was mucking around in training mode, namely practicing EX Rush Upper loops, and my execution let me down and EX Torpedo punch came out. I think EX Torp Punch does about the same damage as DSP, and definitely less than HB, however what I noticed is how far the opponent flies after being hit by it (a full screen in fact).

Most Rogs want to be more or less right on top of their opponents rushing down right? So Torp Punch may not seem like a good idea making them fly away from you. However, if you know your distances for each stage well, then you can use Torpedo Punch to quickly send them into the corner, which sets them up for Rog’s dreaded corner trap of cr. RH, cr. HP and HB which can mean lights out for many opposing players.

Furthermore, it could be used as a get off me move against those close up character matchups which can give Rog trouble by sending them to the other side of the screen giving you plenty of time to regroup. Usually this should reset you to a footsie situation which against the kinds of character matchups I’m talking about (i.e. Gief, Rufus, Gen, Sakura to name a few) should be at your advantage.

Anyhoo, what do people think of this application of Torpedo punch? Have I struck on gold? Or am I deluded in my thinking and it still is Rog’s worst special move?

305

I use it mainly for breaking armor. The ex version is also very useful in the Rog mirror match because it beats most of Rog’s own options.

Non-ex versions can also be used to set up safe-jumps if your opponent quick stands. Just hold up forward if you connect with it near a corner and you’ll get a near perfect safe jump. This trick doesn’t work in all match-ups however.

I tend to stay away from the move unless my opponent is telegraphing FAs though. Non ex versions can be unsafe on block, and they all come out a bit slow.

306

Hello everyone, it has been some time since I posted and I have something to tribute. Im not sure if this will ever be practical but here we go. Ok on a crouching opponent we know that the overhead will not force stand on your opponent. Well I found a little mix up. If you do a forward throw on your opponent and at this time you are charging back, you can take a step and a half backward and do and EX overhead and if it hits your opponent when they are crouching it will force them to stand. The timing on this is very strict. You can do it with a regular fierce punch overhead but the timing is different. You can also mix this up with the dashing low which will hit pretty meaty on your opponent. If they can grab you out of this or not I am not sure yet. But this leads me to the main reason of this, so if you force your opponent to stand you can ultra them after the headbutt. It works on Blanka too! As you take that step back and do the ex or fierce overhead you have enough back charge to ultra them if it hits. It shouldn’t be to hard of a hit confirm IMO. So this is another way to link ultra. Just mix it up with overheads and lows. Hit em with a couple lows to train them and if you get lucky enough to hit the overhead you get that nice ultra!

307

Very interesting. :tup:

But how does this work exactly? What causes the force stand?

308

The only thing I can think of is when you are knocked down and get up, you must stand first for at least 1 frame. Even though you are standing for that frame you are holding crouch but in the standing animation and that is when the overhead hits. That is just my thought.

309

All good points rainscape. And I didn’t know about the safe jump setup, I’d rep you if I could. I use it for armor breaking too, but I was thinking of using outside of this. Mainly I’m thinking of how to use this within combos, so hopefully (with execution not failing me) I won’t have to worry about the fact that it’s unsafe on block.

310

Also another thing that I posted on another topic elsewhere on SRK, linking the full ultra after a level 3 crumple. The way I do it is I crumple my opponent and then stand in place and do the ultra and it will get all the hits without juggling. You have to hit them first with kicks because it comes out a frame faster. If it is done with punches it will make your opponent juggle. Its pretty much a 1 frame link. Give it a try if you guys have yet to try it.

311

FA3, back dash, ultra usually comes out without juggling as long as you are on point with the ultra input. Kicks or punches doesent matter either.

312

it was always useful in my opinion…definately more safer than DSB when trying to get in

only thing i don’t get is why would you use it on zangief…it seems like a free lariat/spd if you don’t hit

313

been playin around with rog’s option selects with tap. dun know if anyone posted anything about it before. after a throw on teleporters like sim or akuma charge tap safe jump and release tap. if they dont do anything tap wont come out, but if they teleport tap comes out and hits him clean. tested it and works probably could super after. the only problem is i havent been able to auto correct tap if they teleport the other way.

314

Here is some fun/random stuff. This list is no where as exhaustive as Jav1ts’ list but I hope it can help the other Rog’s on here!

Focus --> Dash is Different than Normal Dash (Distance Wise!)

This is self explanitory. The reason it happens is because some characters will either take a small step forward or backward as they are charging their focus. Balrog does the latter (takes a 1/2 step back). It works out to an extra 4 little squares in the training stage distance wise. So if you want to create space between the opponent, Focus x Backdash will move you further.

Conversely, Focus x Forward Dash is shorter in distance than a regular forward dash.

(side note: this isn’t AS useful as with other characters, ie Sagat. You will notice top Sagat players to ONLY use FA x fwd dash as a way to quickly move across the screen)

“Hiding” Your TAP Charge/Release

A lot of new Balrog players will charge a “naked” TAP from fullscreen away. It is very easy to detect this as when you push PPP or KKK, Balrog will do a standing HP or HK. DO NOT DO THIS. Any good shoto/Sagat player will know you are charging for TAP, bait you with a fireball, (which you go through) only to eat their DP afterwards.

There are ways to “hide” your charge such that you have a TAP available but it will not be as obvious to your opponent. For example at any of the following times, press and hold PPP or KKK:

  • forward dash (or after a FA x fwd dash)
  • back dash (or after a FA x back dash)
  • block stun (ie blocking the first fireball, TAP thru the 2nd)
  • during a wiggle punch (which you used to dodge a fireball)
  • etc.

The same goes if you want to release your TAP charge but don’t actually want to perform the move, just release at any of points listed above and you will be safe!

And remember, you should really only be using level 1 TAP!

“Tick” Throwing with Whiffed Jumping Normals

Balrog has a few jumping normals that have hitbox which do not angle downward and usually whiff on standing opponents. They are:

  • jump forward MP
  • jump forward MK
  • neutral jump up HK
  • neutral jump up MP

The idea here is to setup a “tick” throw oppertunity by jumping in on the opponent with one of these normals. If they are holding back and blocking, the normal will whiff (you want this to happen) and they will be recovering from block animation. After landing, you will be right in your opponents face and if they are not quick enough to tech, you get a free throw (ie if they are still holding back)!

This might sound very simple but I catch alot of people with this trick the first time I use it. I suggest you try it out and you might be surprised on how well it works! :slight_smile:

I think that it works against (some) people as it might be a brain fart as they are expecting block stun from Balrog’s jump in before mashing tech. But since the jumping normal whiffs, no block stun occurs and instead they get thrown.

I personally like using jump foward MP (more of an “upward” hitbox) and neutral jump HK (less active frames n. jump MP).

  • If you try this trick a couple of times and your opponent is able to counter with a tech throw, don’t try it anymore. It won’t work on them.
  • jump fwd MP setup: on any safe jump situation, just switch HP/HK with MP and just land and throw.

Comboing a cr jab AFTER a Level 1 TAP

Level 1 TAP is listed as +2 on hit. There are also 2 frames of the active hit box. If you can have the TAP hit on the last active frame (ie super meaty), it then becomes +3 on hit. Since cr jab has 3 frame startup, you can combo a cr jab after! (1 frame link).

The easiest way to set this up is after a forward throw, charge TAP and release as they are getting up. The timing is tight but if they get hit, you can combo a cr jab, cr jab, cr short, headbutt!

Comboing into Ultra from an Overhead on Sagat / Blanka / Balrog / et al

I think it has already been mentioned but just to re-itterate:

Overhead Rush Punch, FADC, cr jab x cr jab ~ cr short x headbutt, ultra is a way to combo ultra on those characters that you normally wouldn’t!

Resets with Focus Attack

A new thread with this topic will come soon. I am working on the write up!

Let’s keep up that Balrog Science!

Enjoy!

315

You can also combo off TAP to cr. jab whenever you break an opponent’s focus or get a counter hit, big damage opportunity

316

@Jay Wang:

Nice list. :slight_smile: Just adding a bit to it:

-Looking at the frame data, TAP seems to have 7 active frames so you can theoretically get +8 frame advantage if you hit on the very last active frame of a level 1 TAP. Have to be careful with TAP though, since it loses to a lot of reversals and can be difficult to time properly on wake up.

-I have the OH FADC followup combo in the vid I posted some weeks back.
[media=youtube]yBesh8jq7mY[/media]

-I posted a few FA reset strategies a while back on this thread. Not sure if it’s the same thing you have in mind, but the info might help you if you want to make a reset thread.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7520925&postcount=264 (A few shenanigans you can do after scoring a crumple if you want to try to reset damage scaling)

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7521661&postcount=268 (You can cross underneath certain characters if you reset them with c. mp or c. lk and cancel into low uppercut. This post lists down who the trick works on.)

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Hey rainscape, just wanting to know, was trying out those resets in training mode you’ve done. You’re talking about a lk Torpedo punch after a cr. lk or cr. mp right? Rush upper doesn’t cross up since you pop them up in the air and rush upper keep Rog standing in the air while Rog ducks while doing Torpedo punch.

318

Well, I did say low uppercut, which is the same thing as torpedo punch. :stuck_out_tongue:

319

Wow, lots of big names dumping alot of original tricks here, nice. Please someone (rainscape/JayWong) make a vid of this Focus Reset business once you’ve got the thread organized.

The meaty TAP combo stuff is good to know, but I can’t think of too many scenarios where someone would allow themselves to be hit by such an explicitly telegraphed move on wakeup. How could this meaty possibly hit?..the other guy screws up his reversal, he tries some reversal special that looses to TAP, or maybe the guy goes for a throw thinking the active frames of TAP (since it’s so late) have ended? Is this it? If so, i think I’m with ILLiterate on this one, save the TAP->cr. lp->HB for counters and FA breakers…but I guess you might be able to hit guys with the late active frames of a TAP who are just barely landing from jump, or just coming out of teleport…but i guess the TAP would have to be borderline psychic to nab someone with the late active frames in these scenarios. Right?

I think my favorite little tidbit posted here might be Jay Wang’s j.mp wiff->brainfart throw. Still haven’t tried it, but I’m pretty sure that if someone did that to me, I’d definitely wait too long to tech and would get thrown, especially if it was the first time I ever saw that, those split seconds might mean the difference between a throw and a tech, so it seems worth trying to me.

Wouldn’t the dash-ultra input be preferable to this? You don’t have to deal with any 1 fame link BS, just need to be good at execution (charge b, release focus, f, f, b, f +KKK).

320

Because Boxer doesn’t have a varied wakeup game, i’ve found that ending alot of combos with a dash straight instead of a headbutt is very advantageous, because now you can

  1. far standing jab -> another dash straight or DSB
  2. throw
  3. jump back fierce
  4. any other techniques you know of at sweep range

In general, I find keeping them on their feet is better. They have to block more punches and think faster instead of basically resetting the fight. Also, there is a much better chance they will end up STUNNED

Anyone agree with me on this?