I am trying to implement JT more into my game … but I have not discovered real “set ups” that are abusable … beside the EX JT corner cross ups (which still work pretty good) I am more using JT to “fake” a IAJK or JK cancel after a string or try to fake a neutral jump mix ups.
What I sometime use is --> Opp. cornerd and you get your f.throw -> dash > jump mk > close mk >cr.lp x EX JT … this set up does cross up on a lot of chars … some chars you can go directly from the close mk into EX JT and you are in perfect distance for the EX JT to cross up and you get a free MK RJ or Ultra 2 … well you sacrifice your corner advantage but get a mix up into Ultra 2 for one bar … it is neat … but not great.
I still think that there was a stealth buff to hard JT … it feels better … dunno why.
I would be very interested on the JT stuff Mukii is doing … cause I still believe that we all sleep a bit on JT … there must be some stuff that we simple haven’t used because JKs where/are so superior.
AA HK RJ > dash > HK JT ??? For what ? Baiting a reversal and get the juggle ?
JT tech would be awesome … I really kina like this special … unfortunately MK and LK are really kinda useless … beside some very specific scenarios.
Maybe open a Jaguar Tooth tech thread … ^^ … I would try to contribute …
He does diagonal/neutral jump and SPD back … Gamerbee has also a very unique way how he hold the stick o.O … I am using both methods … the jump version if I am moving around and the tiger knee version if I want to go into a IAJK directly after a poke or special (e.g. cr.mp)
7:05 for a quick idea. just rushed through it to find a random one. busy with the 4th and all. [/quote
Hey Ryu,
watched the mukii matches … from my point of view it does look like that he only wants to bait a DP after the HK RJ > forward dash > HK JT … but Fuudo never bites … he never quick stands and the JT whiff. I think against some chars it can be a solid bait … especially if all DPs have long recovery like with Fei Longs flame kick. So you basically have the situation --> if he reversal DP the JT hits AA and juggles into RJ or maybe Ultra 2 … he does nothing JT goes on block (30 chip damage) and is more or less safe … it is still risky but better than HK JK against Fei …
Basically I would say that Adon can build wake up pressure against chars with a vertical DP (fei long) with HK JT and with a more diagonal DP (yun) HK RJ after a succesfull HK RJ > forward dash … neat stuff … don’t know how much potential it has … maybe char specific … against Yun for example the HK JK beats his DP on wake up … maybe JT beats some other DPs … and it is very solid damage --> JT 120 + MK RJ 150 + safe jump
I still think it would be a nice idea to find more usefull set ups/mind games with JT … Mukii used there a nice set up into EX JT cross up … I think there is still the most money … but more from situations where you get a cross up MK jump in > close mk/cr.mp/close.hp > cancel into EX JT … because the set ups with b.throw out of the corner are a bit awkward because you lose the corner position …
MK JT cross up … sometimes you can make the MK JT hit cross up … but I don’t have found a reliable way to land it … most of the time you can crouch it … but if there is character specific tech … so that you can get a cross up safe jump in in the corner > button X/Y > cancel into MK JT and it hits cross up into combo … that would be very very nice … we should ask Ryu_Apprentice to find some new Adon tech … XD
Hey Daaadom , there is a video where Charysma baits a light shoryken with the jt hk , the timing is not so strict but we should respect wake up ultra :
Hey Daaadom , there is a video where Charysma baits a light shoryken with the jt hk , the timing is not so strict but we should respect wake up ultra :
At 0:30 :
[/quote]
@ Seratna
Absolutely … that is the problem with JT … it is nice for baiting a DP but if someone is patient and has good reactions you will eat big damage.
Some more thoughts:
JT is very useful in this kind of situations when:
The reversal has long recovery frames and you will hit the light, medium and hard DP
Char does not have a “full Screen” invincible reversal Ultra (that will catch all JTs)
Char is a Grappler with 1 frame Ultra … XD
But does this bait also cover a back dash ? I would say the start up is too long but I am not sure … if so … than it would be great … that would mean that it is a very good bait against Fei Long:
Will hit all DPs and juggle
Will “maybe” get a back dash and juggle
Will break wake up FA or RFA will score CH and maybe you can combo off it
Will be safe on block … low/throw mix up or JT again … XD
Sounds good on paper … never thought about this in this way … that JT can be a very good char specific bait.
DAYUM … I am still so exited from the worldcup match yesterday … I am German … and this was sooooooooooo much hype !!! BBQ with friends and than this … unbelievable !!!
Don’t know what DP you are using but Adon got this rules:
Light DP is for combos
Medium DP is for FADC Combos
Hard DP is your AA and for punish
EX DP is a mix of all others --> Very solid AA, good for combos, more invincibility, also good for FADC combos and safe on FADC (for 3 bars)
Acutally Adons Hard DP is very very good … sure it is no 3 frame DP but it deals solid damage, very good against normal jump ins AND it is one of the best auto-correcting DPs in the Game (besides Dee Jays EX upkicks) … only weak point are neutral jumps … but if you learn to delay your DP it is not big of an issue … overall Adons DP is great !
Does Adon still have a faster wake up timinig ? I often DP a safe jump that I normally cant DP because it is a 5f safe jump ? So … does he still have a faster wake up than others … I know it was fixed but was it maybe only adjusted ?
Maybe it is the thing that an OS will make your safe jump longer and your normal 4-5 f safe jump becomes a 6-7 frame safe jump only … well … I don’t know … that’s why I am asking … 8)
Well … I have not tested it … but it is still a rumor from my point of view … but it would explain why Adon is so hard to safe jump … occasionally ^^
It is like the rumor that Adon does have a shorter tech window for throws (like Sagat) but it was never confirmed … but … all my friends are complaining about the difficullty to tech Adons throws … haha … not that I do have a problem with that …
The jt hk works against backdash but doesn’t hit airborne everytime, since now the jk lk airborne does 90 , it’s maybe a better idea to try the jt and the juggle does 260 dmg , it’s sick.
I have an hard time too , to tech throw against Adon , like Rose or Chun-Li who are supposed to be easier , i think it’s the range the problem more than the tech window.
Thx for the clarification … maybe it is also Adons throw animation … don’t know why this bastard is so hard to tech … XD
I will have some time next week and will hit the lab and test against whom the JT maybe the better/best option. Not a fan of light JK on wake up to catch a backdash or break focus … the JT could be the safer option with more damage potential …
What I also never see is cr.mp > light JK cancel to counter FA happy people on reaction … like the shoto cr.mk > tatsu … it does work properly on some chars … and chars with slower backdashes it does aswell work with medium JK …
Guys … don’t know why … but I don’t get the cr.hp to link after a close MP counterhit (+9 on hit) … Yesterday I found some nice stuff with CH close MP but I was not able to connect the cr.hp !!! Anyone else the same problem … or is just my timing off !?
REQUEST:
Need some help … I am looking for Adons knock down timings on all his pokes & specials that do a hard or soft knock down.
Does anybody have this frame data ? It would be a great help !
What I am looking for:
HKD Times for:
Sweep, F/B Throws, EX JK (hit grounded), EX AJK (hit grounded), Super (all versions)
Soft KD Times (quick rise and without quick rise) for:
Light RJ, Medium RJ, Hard RJ, EX RJ, Light RJ (only 2nd hit)
Reset:
Recovery if you reset someone with close HK from a RJ FADC juggle (just a rough number)
Normally you can say if you use the EX RJ you will hit most of the cast crouching after 2-3 lights.
There are a couple of chars you can hit with MK RJ after 2-3 lights crouching … like Cody & Gen … it is all char specific what kind of RJ will hit and on which distance.
I am currently working on a char specific list that will include:
Best BnB combo (standing)
Best Bnb combo (crouching)
Best Jump in MK followup combo
Best max. punish
Best CH combos
Best fuzzy guard stuff & Char specific set ups
Best FA followups
Char specific hitbox combos
Best corner combos
And all this for any char or chars that share the same hurtboxes (like the shotos)
At 12:14 you can see him perform IAJKs. As someone else already answered, he does up, qcb almost always, in footsies at least.
Also with regard to IAJK, for me the trouble with TKing them was timing the kick consistently (I was always too fast). The knowledge that it takes 300+ repetitions for something to even begin settling into muscle memory (it was something along those lines) really helped me stay patient with it, and using different motions for left and right side helped too. Since most people’s wrists seem to be a lot stiffer with rotating to the right side, try this:
When you’re on P1 side: do qcb, then consciously press and hold u(f) and hit the kick after the stick has made contact with the gate.
When you’re on P2 side: do qcbu(f) in one motion, then go to db and press kick. The whole thing needs to be one quick motion, but it helped me to think of it as two parts.
I will be transferring to the “proper” motion for both sides, but I felt it important to get the kick-timing ingrained first, my success-rate on P2-side was around 0%, now it’s ~80%.
Lastly, if this and nothing else on here has helped you get them down reliably, download the combo trainer (“Frame Trapped”, I believe) if you have AE/Ultra on Steam. You can enable input-sounds for combos so you can hear the timing. It usually helps a lot.
One thing I always enjoyed about these board was people explaining troublesome moves in different ways, because sometimes ten different explanations don’t give you the one thing that makes it “click” for you. Just wanted to add mine since no one else did it this way (as far as I could see).
The problem with IAJK is that you cannot explain it … it is possible to describe the “timing” but is is all about the right “feeling” for the IAJK … I am pretty sure there are 20 different ways … but you need to find the 1 or 2 that works for you.
The key and the most tricky part is the “delay” before you hit the button. What helped me for the timing is:
Do the qcb > uf motion OR the uf> SPD back motion
let the stick bounce back to neutral
hit the button immediately
This will help you to understand that you NEED that delay … and that it is part of the special motion … if you got the feeling … you can work on the motion you prefer.